How Jeffrey Katzenberg & Justin Wexler Are Investing in the Future of Enterprise with WndrCo

[00:00:01] These tools are empowering me to do things I never imagined before. They're helping me compose things and write things and create things. And I have to say, they get me a lot of the way there, but they're not doing it for me. And that's the thing that at least I continue to have great optimism around.

[00:00:25] To thrive in a rapidly evolving landscape, brands must move at an ever increasing pace. I'm Matt Britton, founder and CEO of Suzy. Join me and key industry leaders as we dive deep into the shifting consumer trends within their industry, why it matters now, and how you can keep up. Welcome to The Speed of Culture. Up today live from CES in Las Vegas, we're thrilled to welcome Jeffrey Katzenberg and Justin Wexler from WndrCo.

[00:00:53] Jeffrey Long with David Geffen, Steven Spielberg co-founded DreamWorks all the way back in 1994. And he's remained with the business through to 2017, where he left his role as CEO of DreamWorks. And now he's a founder and managing director at WndrCo along side his principal, Justin Wexler, a business major with 10 years working as an investor for high profile clients. Jeffrey, Justin, so great to see you guys today. Thanks for having us. Nice and early in the morning. Absolutely. And so pretty exciting. So why did the two of you prioritize coming to CES this year?

[00:01:21] Well, I have to start with, I've been coming to CES for decades. I mean, literally decades. I don't even want to think about my first CES, but it's... It was still when the adult show was connected to her, right? Well, there was an adult session, yes. Yeah. It was connected with the adult show. Yeah, that is where it literally was like where it's... I know there was a connection to it. There was another side of the convention center. Yeah. Which I happily never saw. Right, right, right. But it's many, many, many decades. Yeah.

[00:01:51] CES has always been a great gathering spot and an opportunity to see sort of amazing, great innovations, both mainstream in terms of consumer electronics and how that was evolving. And you always look forward to seeing what's the next big TV, what's the next great device, communications device in this.

[00:02:15] And so if you think about the 30 plus years that I have been coming to CES, how the world has changed, it's an amazing lens. Absolutely. But what's happened in, I would say, certainly the last decade is that it blossomed into something that was much broader.

[00:02:32] And it became basically the sort of nucleus of bringing people together of related areas of which advertisers, CMOs, marketers became an essential ingredient. And that's where we are today. And so that's why you're here. Yeah. I mean, you have digital technology, you have entertainment, you have commerce, you have the CPG and the big brands are all kind of colliding.

[00:02:59] And there's just so much overlap in marketing and media today. You have companies like Chase that are selling advertising, right? So you have banks selling advertising and then you have retail companies like Target and Walmart selling advertising. So it's not as linear as it used to be in terms of what defines a business. So for us, it just becomes, as I said, just sort of the center of gravity. Yeah. Which in a few days, literally, we've been every day starting at 6.37 a.m. since Monday morning.

[00:03:29] And over the course of three days, really just touch base with a ton of people. It's the beginning of the year. People are setting up their agendas. And so it's been incredibly valuable for us. And we're on day three. Very cool. So Justin, you spend a lot of your time talking to emerging startups in AI, in enterprise, et cetera. Over the last year, what are some of the trends you've seen with some of the more successful companies,

[00:03:54] either in your portfolio at Wunderco or just people that you've been talking to that you're excited about here in 2025? Yeah, no, I appreciate it. So for us, our lane at Wunderco is really to find really high-quality technology that can serve the enterprise and serve the needs and desires and roadmaps of some of the largest brands in the world. And that's a big reason why we're here at CES because many of those individuals, you know, yesterday we were at the Delta Sphere for their keynote. And we do a lot of business with them on their AI initiatives.

[00:04:22] So it's really great to be here for that. Over the years, we've invested in software companies. We're super proud of Figma and Airtable and Webflow. Many of those serve the marketing community. Over the last three or four or so years, we've invested in products now that are leveraging large language models and generative AI in different lanes, particularly marketing, but other areas as well. Two that, you know, we just want to highlight, one's called Writer. Yeah. And that founder's here, actually, right after this.

[00:04:50] We're going to get breakfast and Jeffrey and May, the founder, are going to speak at that phenomenal platform that leverages a full stack from their own large language models that are really great for content creation, PR, blog posts, all those use cases, all the way through to software on top to make it easy for teams to actually get going within the organization. Yeah, I've tried it before. It's a great tool. Yeah. And had extraordinary acceleration in this last 12 months. Because a lot of people have technology, but it doesn't even know how to go to market the right way.

[00:05:17] Well, sort of the way we frame it at WanderCo is that we think of this as the future of work. And at work, how do we, and both at work, but also at home, how do you empower people to be able to be more productive, to be better informed, and just giving them tools to be the best version of whether it's at work or at home.

[00:05:40] And doing it, Writer is a phenomenal tool, very strong deployment in the CMO advertising lane. And so exciting to see May build that virtually and almost overnight into now multi-billion dollar company. Yeah, I mean, it's interesting being an investor in AI because it's moving so fast. And now there are tools out there that allow a one-person team to code on their own.

[00:06:05] And the question becomes, like, as somebody who runs the late-stage venture-funded software company, this is what keeps me up at night is, what's to stop somebody who understands AI just to build their own tool? What used to cost maybe $50 million in R&D, now doesn't anymore. And I think since the barrier to entry for a technology company in a lot of ways is no longer technology, it becomes risky with a lot of upside in investing in AI companies. And we're seeing a big bubble, obviously, right now.

[00:06:32] So there's this concept around citizen developer where even business users within enterprise can now build their own tools to leverage that are personalized. Yeah. And we have another investment, Airtable, that's really core to their thesis. But even, you know, Writer, they have AI Studio. You can build full-fledged AI applications as a marketer. You don't need developer resources. Right. With Webflow, you can design, go straight from design to code without needing developer.

[00:06:58] So I think the developer's role within organizations will continue to evolve and seek out technologies that then the business team could use on their own without having to ask for as much engineering resources. Right, which is just a massive change. Yes. And when you have that, you can have real personalization of tooling at scale within these organizations. The other big aspect of that is procurement takes so long. We see, particularly the last three or so years, the innovation from Silicon Valley and early

[00:07:25] stage companies is unlike that we've ever seen since Wunderco started. Getting through procurement and legal and security takes a while. And so you could have a nine-month lag time of innovation that could help and impact today. And so one of the other big advantages to the citizen developer trends is that as technology evolves with platforms already past all that, teams can then leverage it without having to seek out new tools. They can effectively make their own tools with the vendors that they currently have. Yeah. Yeah.

[00:07:52] Of course, some of the complications in that is that you get legal and data security and privacy involved, and they may not want citizen developers. We're just in the push and pull. Yeah, of course. We're seeing it happen. It's uncharted territory. Yeah. And no one really knows because it's heading so fast. Yeah. So it's incumbent on the vendor, they're going to enable that citizen developing trend to make sure the proper controls are placed for the IT teams.

[00:08:14] So you don't run into those problems where someone might not be as sophisticated to understand the implications that they build a tool in a certain way within a broader platform. Makes sense. But then the other part of it is, is that there are many aspects of work processes that are just repetitive. Yeah. They can be automated. And are so simplistic and yet so time demanding. And they're honestly, they're terrible jobs. Yep.

[00:08:39] The one that goes right to the top of the list for us is expense reconciliation. Now, expense reconciliation is a legal requirement that all corporations are required to do. It'll all be scraped and submitted for you. Well, no, it is. There's a company today called Orbi. Yeah. Which, again, we've been invested in from very early on.

[00:08:58] Group of brilliant talent that came out of Google and built this platform that automates reconciliation here, expense reconciliation to like literally 100% accuracy. Save them in the first year of deployment $4 million. And that's a big play for AI is efficiency. And cost saving. Right. And so taking drudgery out and freeing people up to be doing higher value, higher value work.

[00:09:28] So there's sort of these almost diverging paths here, which is there's pie in the sky. Let's solve the greatest challenges of mankind that AI is hopefully going to do some incredible things. And those promises are huge. Scary. Yeah. Well, I'm going to stay on the positive side of this, right? And then the other side of it is taking drudgery and taking that out of people's day-to-day work and making their jobs more fulfilling.

[00:09:57] I have a question for you about AI. Sure, please. Yeah. If AI would have been, at the state it is today, when you first started in Hollywood, making amazing stories, how do you think it would have changed your trajectory over your career? And what do you think that means for the future of Hollywood in terms of everything you're seeing? Well, it would have had incredible impact.

[00:10:16] In fact, I have been feeling, you know, as I've watched these extraordinary innovations that have been going on around generative AI and the applications around it, whether it's for language or for storytelling or for visuals. Yeah. It's incredibly exciting. And you're talking to someone who has always wanted to be on the forefront of having the best tools for my storytellers who has a competitive advantage.

[00:10:45] I've been going to Silicon Valley literally since the late 70s and when Silicon Graphic was coming out with their first workstations. And how do you apply them for special effects? When Steven Spielberg made Jaws, he took a piece of plywood, cut it out in the shape of a shark fin, painted it gray and dragged it behind a motorboat. That was called a special effect.

[00:11:06] So what I have seen over these years in terms of digital effects, in terms of animation, in terms of 3D, in terms of digital distribution, it is to me, these are opportunities. And I've always tried personally, maybe it's just my own interest in seeing what's a better paintbrush. Yeah. Right? What's a better, I'm going to use a word, nobody can use it, typewriter. Yeah.

[00:11:34] You know, these are tools to enhance artists and creators and storytellers. And so if I were in the center of this today or were those tools available back in the 70s and 80s when I started, I'm supremely confident that I would be jumping into it hook, line, and singer. And that's your advice for younger people. A hundred percent. And there are going to be new forms of story and storytelling.

[00:12:00] Yes, it's going to disrupt some pre-existing and processes that exist today that no longer are going to make any sense. But when I arrived at the Disney Studio in 1984, there were several hundred workers in the ink and paint department that painted animation cells by hand. Wow. Literally. There were maybe 200 of them. It was literally the ink and paint department.

[00:12:27] There's a building on the Walt Disney Studios lot that's on the top of the things that ink and paint. I didn't know anything at the time, but that's how animation was made now going back 84. So 40 years, 45 years. And so seeing how these things change and evolve, there are no ink and painters anymore. But there also never been more people employed in animation than there are today. That's fascinating. And I appreciate the insight.

[00:12:55] A question that is just like burning in my mind as I hear you talk is over time, since you talked about when you first got to Disney and all the innovation, those were tools that would enhance storytelling. The question with AI is, is it going to replace some of the production and storytelling skills versus enhance? Because now what it can output, it's not just a step forward.

[00:13:18] I would say it's a massive leap forward and probably unlike something that you've, I mean, you tell me, but probably something you've not really seen in your career. Well, it's hard to say, you know, certainly the impact of digital, both on the making of content and maybe even more profoundly on the distribution of content. Distribution. Yeah. It's been utterly disruptive. It's turned everything upside down. I mean, that is the foundation of Netflix. Right. Right.

[00:13:46] And which is now the dominant media entertainment company globally. Today, you add up all the market value of all the other entertainment companies and one company, Netflix is worth more than all of them combined. Right. Which is extraordinary. Yeah. A company that 15 years ago was, they had envelopes. I remember I had them. I actually still have one of the envelopes. The red envelopes that are crime. That's you. It would hit your movie. I know. So is there a bigger tsunami than that? I'm not sure.

[00:14:15] Well, I guess what comes to my mind is like, but Netflix is still a company. So Netflix still had to have investors and raise capital, et cetera. With AI, you could have an individual now with the right prompt and the right technology. Well, you just said the right thing. So if you really want to hone in on this. I do. The word is prompt. Prompt. Okay. And now prompt to me is just another word for author. Yeah. Writer, director, cinematographer. I mean, I can go through virtually every aspect of it. Okay.

[00:14:44] Well, I'm not sure that a single person will be able to wear all of those hats effectively as quote, the prompter. And there's the answer. And so my guess, and it is only a guess, is that there are going to be very specific skill sets and very specific artists that are going to perfect the deployment of those tools around whether it's a visual, whether it's a sound, whether it's around music, whether

[00:15:13] it's around speech, whether it's around scripting, whether it's around storytelling, all these things are possible. Now, I will tell you as someone who is finding enormous, enormous productivity and satisfaction around using, you know, if I open up on my phone and you would see on my opening screen here, Gemini, Claude, Chachi, BT and perplexity, right?

[00:15:38] That's like literally everybody on their phone, you organize the most important things to the bottom of your front screen. The real question is who's the most famous person in your contact list? Okay. That's where I want to know. I don't know. That's a scenario. Thanks. Exactly. So my point is, is that I'm finding these tools are empowering me to do things I never imagined before. They are helping me compose things and write things and create things.

[00:16:05] And I have to say they get me a lot of the way there, but they're not doing it for me. And that's the thing that at least I continue to have a great optimism around. And so I've had to write a couple of speeches. I've had to do a couple of interviews with people like this and people I'm only meeting for the first time and asking the right questions, the right prompts. It has just empowered me to be able to do a quality of work that is significantly better

[00:16:35] than I've been able to do on my own in the past. That's saying a lot. I know it. I know it. We'll be right back with The Speed of Culture after a few words from our sponsors. I think the one word you said there that is really at the center of all of it, not just all of AI, but CES, brands, it's storytelling. Okay. So this is why WonderCo exists, not why it exists. It is one of the most valuable and singularly unique aspects of us as a venture firm.

[00:17:02] I mean, there are a lot of great firms out there today and they all find their lanes of things that they are due because money is now fungible. There's any great founder today with a really good idea has many, many, many choices as to where they're going to take investment from. So remember, and this is where Justin's a rock star. He's become a partner, by the way, since the beginning of the year. Thank you. We're truffle hunters. We're out looking for the rarest of rare.

[00:17:31] We want the unique founder with a great idea, has made that sort of zero to one impossible journey to actually build, create something and has a product, has product market fit. Those are the things that we're looking for because our value, we believe, and I think we've shown it now, is one to 10. So if zero to one is impossible, one to 10 is improbable.

[00:17:56] And there are thousands and thousands and thousands of companies that got to zero to one and were never able to actually get out into the world, into the market, everything and anything. You know, I mean, how do you get in the door? How do you meet a CMO to demonstrate? How do you get May in front of the right people in the right way to be able to show her product? Yeah. Think about what's on the other side of that in terms of a company.

[00:18:24] How many people are knocking on their door every day saying, I've got a great idea for you. I have a new product for you in this. And there's thousands. You got to go a thousand different ways. Well, or you want a competitive advantage. Everybody's looking for a cheat code. That's exactly right. Right. And so what we've tried to focus a lot of our energy on is that go to market. And that's why, frankly, being here at CES, in which we are continuing to build out and

[00:18:51] connect our market, our connection with the C-suites, where they now, I think, recognize we've become effective at sorting through those hundreds or thousands of ideas and finding the very best. And we don't bring them to them until we have proof of concept. So if we walk in the door and knock on the door to a CMO with May to talk about writer, we have proof of concept about that.

[00:19:20] And they now trust that we've done our work here. So if we bring it to them, try true, test it. It will deliver. And so that's what we've been building out the last couple of years. It's exciting because I think we've had some real great successes. Before we run out of time, we should talk about one that we're particularly excited about, very much focused on the advertising market, which when it achieves its one to 10, may be the most disruptive and transformative sector of companies that we've come across.

[00:19:50] Okay. So tell me about it. It's called Alempic. Okay. A-L-E-M-B-I-C. And I'll say something to you that you've heard many, many times over the years. So this is a company that focuses on brand marketing and being able to deliver attribution, cause and effect in brand marketing. And I've been doing brand marketing for 40 years. I'm sure responsible for many, many billions of dollars spent in brand marketing.

[00:20:18] And I, like every single other person would say to you, I'm a hundred percent confident that 50% of my brand marketing works. I just don't know which. John Wanamaker, right? Literally. And that has continued to be the case to today. You can walk around here and you have this conversation with any CMO. We had it last night with frankly, three CMOs of fortune 50 companies. Each one of us says they are sending, they're spending hundreds and hundreds of millions of dollars a year.

[00:20:45] Each of them is a trillion dollars a year spent on brand marketing. Justin found this amazing founder, entrepreneur genius about a year and a half or so ago. And I'm going to let him tell you. Yeah, please. Yeah. So Tomas and his co-founder came from a big, they worked in big data. Actually, John Adams, CTO was head of infrastructure. He built that from seed state to IPO. And then Tomas Puig, who's the CEO, worked at NASA. And then he was a CMO himself.

[00:21:14] So he saw all the challenges around brands, effectiveness and attribution. And so the two of them noticed during the pandemic, contact tracing and the advances there to take huge, huge data sets and bring them together and structure them in a way where you can see how one cause leads to an effect, how infections lead to the spread of the virus. And so they thought to themselves, well, what's the difference between infection and spreading of a virus and spreading of marketing? Because in many ways, mathematically, they're quite similar.

[00:21:43] You get exposed to a virus, you expose to marketing, it spreads, and then there's an AV outcome, you know, that's sick or not, or you purchase a Delta flight or you don't. Right. So mathematically, they're quite similar. We have not had the amount of compute needed to calculate the tens of billions of rows in the marketing world. We've had it for a little while in climate, disease, nuclear, leveraging supercomputers, but never for marketing teams. And so Alembic has built a platform and algorithms that can take TV, social, radio, podcast, digital,

[00:22:13] all comprehensive, not just testing on TikTok and AV, you know, tests of ads, but looking at comprehensive and holistic and then seeing how that leads to down funnel effects. Very cool. So attribution, full funnel attribution for brand builders. Exactly. And NVIDIA, who's been a really close partner in developing this, has provided one of the top 200 supercomputers in the world that Alembic physically owns. Yeah, check it out. This sounds really cool. It changes the world.

[00:22:39] When I say it changes the world, I think in a way in which for brand marketing, if you actually now can have the quality of data around effectiveness that you have for performance marketing, it changes the trillion dollar a year business. Yeah. It affects everybody. Because every number bifurcated, it's like we have performance marketing that we know has high attribution, but brand doesn't. Well, we're looking out here and there's a thing called Allegiant Stadium. Yeah. How much is the value of putting that name on that?

[00:23:09] Right. Versus how much it takes to that. Right? Right. And so our- We actually had the CMO of Allegiant on the podcast. Yes. Yeah. And so this morning, we're actually doing a press interview or an interview with the CMO of Delta Airline. Alicia. And Alicia, boldly and bravely, when we brought this to her last summer, there are two paths here. You can unleash an army of data engineers and data scientists to try and understand and get at the core of what this does.

[00:23:38] And it's all there to do it, but it takes you months and months to do that. Going through all the clearances and things that you need and approval through CISO and all of, you know, to do it. Or you can do what she did, which is say, you know what, I'm just going to do a POC. Well, CMOs have the power to do that. And she, particularly her, particularly this moment at Delta. And so she did a POC around the Olympics last summer where she said, show me what value am I getting out of our sponsorship? They're a very, very big sponsor of it.

[00:24:08] And this was deployed in weeks. Her results came in almost instantaneously. They were invaluable to her. And she literally gave them a multi-year, multi-million dollar contract. Great to hear about it. I'll definitely check it out. So shifting gears, we wrap up. Actually, I have a final question for each of you guys. But before I do that, Jeffrey, I want to thank you for supporting BU College of General Studies. I'm a graduate of BU CGS, and I didn't do well in high school.

[00:24:37] And I would not have gotten into BU if there was no CGS. And once I got into School of Communications, I kind of found my place and went the same path as Howard Stern and somebody other famous Alambo. It was actually my daughter who I told her because she's an aspiring actress. And I told her I was interviewing you. And she started to do some research. And she's like, oh, my God, Dad, he supported the College of General Studies. I just want to thank you for that. Thank you. My kids went there. Yeah, I know. It's a great university and proud to have been able to support it. Very cool.

[00:25:07] So to wrap up here, I have one question for each of you. And I want to start with you, Justin. It's not lost to me that Jeffrey Kavlenberg, a legend in business and Hollywood, just said you're his partner. For those who are listening, Justin's a very young guy. Most people at your age don't get to be partners with somebody with the stature of Jeffrey. Obviously, he knows how to find talent, but you would not be in the seat if it weren't for specific things that you did. Tell me what the two or three things that you did that put you in the seat you are today that maybe we can impart on somebody younger. Yeah, no, I appreciate that.

[00:25:36] So I first met Jeffrey when I was 23 years old. How? I got into venture right out of college. And so you talk about Netflix. I was at a firm that was the biggest investor in Netflix. So I got to see a little bit when they were moving towards their own content. And so that's how I got my start. It was a cold email outreach when I was a senior in college. So, you know. You just emailed Jeffrey. No, that was how I got my original. Oh, got it. So that's how I originally got into venture. Your original venture.

[00:26:03] After, so Jeffrey and Sujay, who's one of our other founding partners, were starting the firm. I got connected. Actually, there's another partner, Chen Li Wang, who previously was a product theater at Draw Block. So he was my initial contact to Wonder Co. So I remember, obviously, we hadn't, never had made any investments. You know, the first one hadn't been fully raised. So it was kind of the ground floor, but knew I learned so much from each of them. And so I was really, really excited to be the young guy when I joined.

[00:26:30] Jeffrey's been my mentor, incredible, over the last eight years. And, you know, when he speaks about when he came through the ranks with Barry Diller, right? And how Barry had him do different tasks at Paramount before going off to Disney. Yeah. And that experience has been provided to me at Wonder Co. When I first joined, had no portfolio. So it was all about sourcing new investments and trying to build that up from there. All the aspects of doing diligence and closing deals. And then just kind of grew the skill set.

[00:26:59] And very much so because Jeffrey's designed it that way. And so now we're at a point where being kind of on the boards of some of these companies, developing that skill set. And particularly over the last couple of years, interacting with CMOs and other leaders, just hearing their needs. You know, Alicia, interesting enough, she was the one who said attribution effectiveness was a challenge for them. And that's what we love is to hear the needs and really try to find investments like with Alembic that can solve those needs.

[00:27:25] And so the skill set has just developed over the last eight years and the right system and the right firm and, you know, Wonder Co has provided that to me. It's awesome. So Jeffrey, the question I have for you to wrap up is, if you look back on your career, what are some of the common themes that you would point to? Maybe two or three of them that were decisions that you consistently made right in terms of how you were going to approach your career that made you the success that you were. Well, I have a couple of these things.

[00:27:50] I've said them before and they're just sort of fundamental things that I sort of adapted to my own sort of work and work ethic and ambition and stuff. And the first and probably most important one was just two simple words, which is exceed expectations. And so I learned early on that if you exceed the expectations of somebody that you work for, they give you more to do. They provide greater opportunity.

[00:28:17] You get rewarded for that in many different ways. Exceed the expectations of the people who work for you. Exceed the expectation of your customer, of your consumer. Every movie, every television show, every animated show started. The foundation of it is, can we make something that will exceed the expectation of our audience? Now, you don't always succeed at any of those things that I said, but that has been a sort

[00:28:45] of driving theme to me personally that I sort of embrace and I continue to embrace it today, which is, is that in everything that I do, my ambition is to exceed the expectations of someone. The second thing is, is the value of partnership and mentorship. I put those things together. I have had maybe the greatest set of mentors that anyone you said, you know, who are the people in my, you know, that would come up in the top of my contact in that.

[00:29:13] But I had Barry Diller as a mentor, Michael Eisner as a mentor, David Geffen as a mentor, Steven Spielberg as a mentor and partners. They weren't just mentors, but as I delivered, just as Justin has become my partner, I started mentoring him. Today, he is now my partner. We spent most of our time talking about Rider and Olympic. He found both those companies, right?

[00:29:36] So we hopefully created the platform and gave him the resources to go do it, but he's the one that's delivering the goods there and that. And that's what, so again, mentorship, partnership, exceed expectations. Love that. It's fantastic. And I'll give you the last one, which is what drives me most of all, because you say, look backwards and I don't look backwards other than when someone engages and asks me, I never

[00:30:03] wake up in the morning and think about, oh, the lion can't ever watch record. No, you don't know ever. I don't. I watch his old movies. My daughter watches them a hundred times a day. Yeah. You know, but I, but I don't, I never wake up and I'll tell you why. Never let your memories be better than your dreams. And honestly, think about those words. And I will tell you, I got up this morning at 445, excited for my day today.

[00:30:30] A little concerned about the fires in LA, but excited for today and tomorrow and all of the things I have coming, my 50th wedding anniversary. Oh, amazing. Congratulations. All about partnerships. There you go. Is this weekend and next week I'm in New York and already have an amazing schedule of things. And so my dreams are still what drive me every day. And therefore actually, you know, I'm in my car and I'm driving a hundred miles an hour

[00:30:59] and I metaphorically, by the way, and I don't have a rear view mirror. That's amazing. And I think it's such great advice. I think a lot of people, while in regret or they look backwards all the time and we all make mistakes and that's, I think a bad place to look backwards as well. Well, it's a blessing to neither have the regret of something that you didn't do or you did wrong that you wished you could fix.

[00:31:23] Not that we don't have them, but they're not front of mind for me or relying on moments that happen sometime in your career that you're still living off of. And that's, I think it's one of the hardest things of being a great athlete. Yeah. Michael Jordan never got too high or too low. But I'm just saying your greatest moments are in your youth, right? And to move on, to find some new career, to find that new outlet, that new opportunity.

[00:31:52] It's like, I look at Peyton Manning, he seems as happy as he's ever been. He's found a great path for himself. And so he's not living in the past. He's living today and in the future. Yeah. I think that's fantastic advice. And it's advice that applies to people at all ages because we all have paths and whether you're 20 or 40 or 60 or two months. Yeah. Or two months. Exactly. That's exactly right. Well, I want to thank both you guys for taking time during your busy schedule at CES to speak with me today.

[00:32:17] It's been really inspiring and it has motivated me to do a lot more and think bigger and definitely dream forward. And I think it will for our audience too. So thank you for that. Exceed expectations. Oh, we will. On behalf of Susie and I, we team. Thanks again to Jeffrey Katzenberg, the founding partner of Winther, along with his partner, Justin Wexler, for joining us today. Be sure to subscribe, rate, and review the Speed of Culture podcast on your favorite podcast platform. Until next time, see you soon. Bye-bye.

[00:32:45] The Speed of Culture is brought to you by Susie as part of the Adweek Podcast Network and Agus Creator Network. You can listen and subscribe to all Adweek's podcasts by visiting adweek.com slash podcasts. To find out more about Susie, head to susie.com. And make sure to search for the Speed of Culture in Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or anywhere else podcasts are found. Click follow so you don't miss out on any future episodes. On behalf of the team here at Susie, thanks for listening.