The ART of Marketing with Amanda Rassi, SVP & CMO of The Michaels Companies

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[00:01:34] all lowercase, and get 10% off your plan. So I do think there are big pieces of our business

[00:01:42] that are a bit AI proof, if you will. If you think of someone who loves making friendship

[00:01:47] bracelets, that's inherently a physical thing you make. Put on your arms. And people do

[00:01:52] like doing that. There is the joy of making the thing with your hands that I think will

[00:01:58] continue to be a thing. That said, AI can be a tool for creativity as well.

[00:02:05] To thrive in a rapidly evolving landscape, brands must move in an ever-increasing pace.

[00:02:09] I'm Matt Britton, founder and CEO of Suzy. Join me and key industry leaders as we dive

[00:02:14] deep into the shifting consumer trends within their industry, why it matters now,

[00:02:18] and how you can keep up. Welcome to the speed of culture.

[00:02:26] Today we're thrilled to be joined by Mandy Rassi, the SVP and Chief Marketing Officer of Michael Stor's.

[00:02:32] Mandy is at the helm of sharing the mission of spreading creative joy and injecting her 20-plus

[00:02:36] years of marketing and analytics into all our exciting new innovations at the great Michael

[00:02:41] Store. Mandy, so great to see you, and thanks so much for joining today.

[00:02:44] Thank you for having me. Great to be with you guys.

[00:02:47] Absolutely. So it's interesting because I've mentioned this many times before,

[00:02:50] but so many of our guests at the Speed of Culture podcast cut their teeth, so to speak,

[00:02:55] at Proctor & Gamble. And your background is no different. You spent 14 years at PNG

[00:03:00] coming in in the early 2000s. Tell us about your experience at PNG and more specifically

[00:03:06] what it was like to play such a critical role in the insights and research function

[00:03:10] at Proctor & Gamble. I loved my time at PNG. So I joined PNG right out of undergrad.

[00:03:15] I had studied psychology and what was then called women's studies, which was part of sociology,

[00:03:20] and got a job in consumer and market knowledge at PNG coming right out of there. And thought

[00:03:25] I would spend a couple of years and then go back to grad school, but really fell in love

[00:03:29] with the company and with the work that we were doing. I spent about half my time on the global

[00:03:33] brand side, much of that on the global laundry business working on brands like Tide and Ariel,

[00:03:39] Gain, Downey. And then I spent the second half of my time there on the retailer side,

[00:03:44] so still part of the brand function, but working with the retailers across North America. So I spent

[00:03:50] a lot of time in the grocery channel working with Kroger, Safeway, Albertsons and a lot of smaller

[00:03:56] regional grocers. Then I spent some time in the club in whom improvement channel and then

[00:03:59] doing some innovation work across retail and across all the brands for North America.

[00:04:04] So it was a great experience where I got to do lots of things in the span of the

[00:04:09] 14 years, which I think is part of what's very cool about PNG is it's big, but that allows you to

[00:04:15] try lots of different things and learn a ton within the same company.

[00:04:20] So I'm fascinated with the laundry category with a brand like Tide because

[00:04:24] I've spoken before about why wouldn't a brand like Tide actually just buy a company that makes

[00:04:31] washing machines? And then you could have washing machines in consumers' households and they

[00:04:35] could be smart washing machines and every time they runs out, it just orders more Tide.

[00:04:39] And the washing machine only takes Tide and basically almost did the same model that you see

[00:04:44] Apple doing where they have a vertically integrated solution where they have the hardware

[00:04:48] and the software or so in the case of Tide, the software is a detergent and the hardware is

[00:04:52] the laundry machine. The conversations like that ever happen. I know you probably can't share

[00:04:56] what happened at PNG but just more generally in the category because it's always fascinated me

[00:05:00] why a brand like Tide wouldn't go in a direction like that.

[00:05:04] Yeah, so what I will say is lots of conversations happen. I worked in newfulness

[00:05:08] as part of my time there and things like Tide dry cleaners came out of that, which is

[00:05:12] a similar thing along a different vector of fabric care. And PNG's approach was always

[00:05:17] sort of billed by our partners. So figuring out like one, I think the discipline at PNG,

[00:05:23] and this is a lot of what we did in consumer and market knowledge, is really understanding

[00:05:28] the consumer and understanding the DNA of the brand and where your competitive advantage

[00:05:34] lies. So in terms of R&D, supply chain, retail, sort of arms into retail, etc.

[00:05:41] And I think PNG is not in the business of making appliances. So I think your take on

[00:05:47] partnership is more where something like that would have happened. And certainly you see lots

[00:05:50] of places where PNG did partner or frankly acquired technology. So if you look at

[00:05:55] Swiffer would be a great example of that where the technology or some of the components

[00:06:00] that go into the mobs that are more durable. Or Gillette too, right? Yeah, or Gillette.

[00:06:05] Absolutely. But always there was a discipline at PNG, it wasn't just like get into a space

[00:06:11] to play. It was you want to get into a space to win with that brand. And so there was always

[00:06:16] a great discipline of like one, should we do this from a consumer point of view? Is it within

[00:06:22] the DNA of this brand to do it? And do we have an ability to go in and do this in a way where

[00:06:27] we're going to win and have some potential to become the market leader? And if you didn't check

[00:06:32] a lot of those boxes really sufficiently, then there was great discipline to not just go chase

[00:06:38] the shiny object or thing that like we could do but maybe wouldn't be the best investment

[00:06:42] of resources. Sure. And to be clear, I wasn't suggesting it just because it was a fun

[00:06:46] place to play. I would suggest saying more that one of the biggest challenges I know for

[00:06:50] CBG companies is customer acquisition and driving loyalty. So if you actually had a built-in

[00:06:56] distribution channel, i.e. the washing machine in the home, then really it takes a lot of this

[00:07:01] customer acquisition costs away and in the world where consumers are more and more embracing

[00:07:05] IoT. I just thought it was an interesting concept but I totally, yeah, it was interesting here.

[00:07:09] I always wanted to hear about it from the client side because I have these ideas and

[00:07:12] it was just good to hear your take on it. So then you went over to Kroger and obviously

[00:07:16] Kroger's a retailer. So you went from being on the manufacturing side and overseeing CBG products

[00:07:22] to a retailer. How is that different? And what precipitated your decision to actually leave

[00:07:28] a company like P&G after being there for 14 years because many who've been in a company

[00:07:32] like that for so long just decided to be a lifer there, you made the decision to jump over

[00:07:36] the Kroger. Yeah. So to your first question, very different in many regards. So people will

[00:07:42] say like, oh, retail moves fast. And I will say P&G also moves fast especially sort of within the

[00:07:47] cohort of CBG but you really cannot underestimate how fast retail moves. We're watching the sales

[00:07:54] on a daily basis and not trying to overreact on that but you do react. Obviously P&G makes more

[00:08:00] premium brands and while discounting is a piece of it, Kroger is very high low and where I am

[00:08:05] at Michael's now is even more high low. So really the promotional nature of marketing on a

[00:08:11] brand where promo is such a core part of the brand is quite different as well. And then obviously

[00:08:16] the space of food is a really fun space. It also works very differently in some regard than things

[00:08:22] like laundry detergent, paper towels, diapers, you know, the kinds of things we were doing at P&G.

[00:08:27] So I was able to apply a lot of the same skills and core fundamentals. I think

[00:08:32] really the consumer understanding pieces, the brand strategy and customer experience

[00:08:37] fundamentals can go anywhere. You just have to really learn the industry and learn the consumer

[00:08:43] of the business that you're on and figure out how to best apply those things in a way that

[00:08:47] will grow loyalty with the customer, grow the customer base and then ultimately accelerate

[00:08:51] the business. Sure. And obviously one of the biggest differences working in the retailer is

[00:08:56] you have so much ability to capture that first party consumer data which is more challenging

[00:09:01] for a company like P&G which sells through the Krogers and targets the Walmart to the

[00:09:05] world. How did you like us lean into that at Kroger and what were your learnings in terms of

[00:09:10] your ability to build loyalty and leverage that first party data which is now more important

[00:09:14] than ever before? I went there at a really interesting time. So Kroger had bought out

[00:09:19] Dunhumby USA which had been a really important partnership doing all things customer data

[00:09:23] and loyalty for Kroger for quite a while. And I went there when they were not quite

[00:09:28] a year into the full acquisition and creation of 8451. So there was tons of customer data

[00:09:35] and I got to be there at a fun time where we were figuring out how to best apply it.

[00:09:41] Kroger had long used it for things like the loyalty programs and new coupons for things

[00:09:45] that you buy the most using it for pricing and promotion but we weren't really using it

[00:09:50] for marketing when I first got there. And so we got to really stand up what is now

[00:09:56] the marketing and retail media ecosystem at Kroger. Kroger has a ton of data to your point.

[00:10:02] Food also moves fast so if you think of even the number of trips your average customer is making

[00:10:09] in food it's more than once a week. So not only do you have a lot of household,

[00:10:13] you have a lot of depth in terms of the profile that you have because you've got the food side,

[00:10:18] you've got the more household goods side, you've got beauty, you've got general merchandise.

[00:10:24] To an extent we also had financial and healthcare. Obviously there's a lot of regulation around data

[00:10:29] in those two spaces but we've really had a great view of who the customer was and got to figure

[00:10:37] out lots of interesting ways of going beyond just sending really relevant offers but actually

[00:10:43] using the data through our paid media ecosystems and having the right series of clean rooms

[00:10:48] and a media ecosystem where we could push audiences and find look-alikes which a lot of people are

[00:10:53] doing now but back in like 2017, 2018 I think Kroger along with Walmart, Target and probably a few

[00:11:00] others were pretty on the front end of figuring out how the modern sort of more personalized

[00:11:07] media ecosystem is going to work. Absolutely. And a big trend we've also seen in the last

[00:11:12] couple years is just the explosion of retail media. I speak to so many

[00:11:16] brand managers at Big CPGs and they talk about how more and more of their budget is going there.

[00:11:22] Some of them question the value in terms of is it something that they're just doing because

[00:11:26] they need to get the shelf space where other retailers I think do deliver great value.

[00:11:29] Kroger has their Precision Marketing Unit. What is your take on retail media overall?

[00:11:35] How can it continue to drive impact for the brands that it serves and where do you see it going?

[00:11:40] If I were sitting on the CPG side, I think there are pros and cons. So retail media is fantastic

[00:11:47] in terms of being able to get very close to the customer near the point of purchase or the

[00:11:53] purchase decision and also the transparency I think is far and away better than a lot of what

[00:11:59] we get in traditional media. So the ability to close the loop on a media activation and then

[00:12:07] a purchase happening in the store is about as transparent as it gets in the likes of retail media.

[00:12:12] The attribution basically.

[00:12:14] Huge, yes. And I think especially over the last five plus years there's been so much

[00:12:19] conversation in the media industry about transparency as a brand. I'm investing in

[00:12:24] media. How much of that is really going to the working dollars of what's happening there?

[00:12:30] What is the reach? What is the frequency? Am I not over-frequencying? Am I not

[00:12:35] serving up garbage impressions that a bot is seeing and a human is not seeing?

[00:12:39] And I think retail media has a really interesting,

[00:12:43] sort of unique position of that ability to close the loop and give you very clear measurement on

[00:12:49] what you're getting. Now obviously it's not perfectly unduplicated because they all exist

[00:12:54] within their own sort of walled gardens, which we'll talk a lot about like a Facebook

[00:12:58] or a Google as a walled garden, but in some ways the likes of a Walmart, a Kroger,

[00:13:03] they're showing you the purchases within their ecosystem and you can't perfectly dedupe that

[00:13:08] of like was that person going to buy a tie at Walmart and I just got them to buy it at Kroger.

[00:13:12] So I think that's where the CPGs then need some other mechanisms to try to tease that out,

[00:13:18] even with more, I guess sort of old school things like marketing mix,

[00:13:21] which I know lots of us still use and it serves a purpose.

[00:13:25] That said, as every retailer is seeming to spin up retail media, I can see where

[00:13:30] CPGs might see it as a cost to serve, where it becomes part of the relationship you have to have,

[00:13:36] not just with the big retailers, but all the retailers. And I think that's what's going

[00:13:40] to be interesting to see is over time how many of these smaller ones can survive,

[00:13:47] especially if you're in more of a niche like if you're a PNG,

[00:13:50] you've got Walmart, Amazon, Target, Kroger, that probably covers a lot of your customer base.

[00:13:56] Right. When you talk about deduping, right.

[00:13:58] Exactly.

[00:13:59] Right. It gets over a lot.

[00:14:00] And managing all of them, right? It's like that's also a lot of buys to place,

[00:14:04] to measure, to have a point of view on, to optimize, et cetera.

[00:14:07] Yeah. And I think there's a lot of macroeconomic factors impacting the big box retailers, right?

[00:14:11] You have rising commodity costs, it's putting pressure on margins,

[00:14:16] increased costs to acquire customers. And then you have obviously other pressures

[00:14:21] like private label that are impacting the CPG companies on the other side.

[00:14:25] And I think the danger in all of this is that the retailers get too comfortable with retail

[00:14:30] media being part of their overall operating model and then just keep kind of inching up

[00:14:34] the costs. And then to your point, I like the way price to serve.

[00:14:38] And then ultimately the CPG companies say, well, wait, what are we really paying for here?

[00:14:42] At the same time, I think it's interesting that you see platforms get into the retail

[00:14:47] space. Like you have Uber who has tons of first-party data. And I wouldn't be surprised

[00:14:52] if you start to see companies like Uber get more into the retail space just so they're taking their

[00:14:56] data and getting the retail, just like retail companies are getting into the data and advertising

[00:15:01] space. I think you're going to see a lot of convergence moving forward.

[00:15:04] Yeah. It'll be interesting to also see how partnerships evolve in that space as well of

[00:15:08] how there was sharing could happen, especially as the big, big platforms like the Googles

[00:15:14] and the Metas of the world are increasingly walled gardens. But it'll be interesting to see

[00:15:19] others can sort of form some networks in collaboration to try to connect the dots when

[00:15:25] we increasingly can't do it across big pieces of our buy.

[00:15:28] You're right. But yeah, it's almost like they're frenemies, right? Because ultimately,

[00:15:32] Facebook and Google are going to be competing with the retailers for those dollars.

[00:15:35] Yeah, right.

[00:15:36] Right. But they need each other. There's obviously a lot of convergence going on.

[00:15:40] So obviously Kroger, I've always kind of admired them being a very forward-thinking

[00:15:45] retailer with what they were doing with 84, 51 after the

[00:15:48] that Humbly acquisition. And I'm sure that experience really gave you a much more broad

[00:15:53] ranging view of what marketing is being at a company like P&G and then going to Kroger.

[00:15:57] And all that culminated with you joining a couple years ago as CMO Michael Stores.

[00:16:02] And Michael Stores, I saw them post about a week ago on LinkedIn saying,

[00:16:05] Michael's our purpose is to fuel the joy of creativity.

[00:16:09] Talk to me about what that means and why the company thinks that's important as an

[00:16:13] overarching purpose to, I guess, impose on consumers.

[00:16:17] Yeah. So we just moved to that purpose in August and I am very passionate about it for a few reasons.

[00:16:23] One, creativity is joyful and we hear that from our customers who create in all sorts of ways.

[00:16:31] So it can be traditional sort of arts or crafts, but decor is a huge piece of our business.

[00:16:36] So you'll also see creativity in spaces like decking out your house for Halloween.

[00:16:41] And the common thread that we have seen across is the joy either in the excitement of starting to

[00:16:48] think about what you're going to create and sort of that spark of the idea moment, joy throughout

[00:16:53] the process that we also know people can kind of get stuck in their creative process a little bit.

[00:16:58] And part of Michael's role is to help them get unstuck. And then obviously the joy at the

[00:17:02] end when you get to appreciate what you've created. So as we look at really our purpose

[00:17:08] to fuel the joy of creativity, we want to be that partner for all creative people wherever

[00:17:14] they are in that cycle. So it could be where you are in the cycle of a project. It could be

[00:17:19] across types of creativity that people sort of want to play in or where people are in their

[00:17:24] journey. So we'll have people who are just getting started on a creative journey for the

[00:17:28] first time ever all the way to like on our maker place business. We have sellers who are

[00:17:34] professional creators who are actually selling handmade goods as part of their livelihood.

[00:17:39] So we love the new purpose because I think it paints the canvas of the role we want to play

[00:17:46] across that whole ecosystem of creativity and the spirit of joy. I mean, I will just say it

[00:17:51] makes for a really fun place to work when inherently you are anchored to joy as your purpose

[00:17:57] for being but it also really resonates with our customers and it's a fun place.

[00:18:01] You'll even hear customers say like, Michael's is my happy place. I love going to Michael's

[00:18:05] just to browse around and get inspired. And I will say that's something that's been fun for me

[00:18:10] coming from albeit great brands but brands that live more in the space of a chore, right? Doing

[00:18:15] your laundry, cleaning your house. Low involvement categories, right?

[00:18:18] Grocery shopping to be in a category where people are like, I can't wait to go to Michael's

[00:18:23] is a ton of fun. We'll be right back with the speed of culture after a few words from our sponsors.

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[00:19:54] I think it points back to what your childhood, right? Like when you're a child and I have

[00:20:15] a young daughter just watching her create things. It's so joyful for her because the world's open

[00:20:20] to possibilities. I think as we get older and life, we lose that. I think when you go into a Michael's,

[00:20:25] it taps into that childhood joy of unlimited potential. Yeah. Oh, I love that. That is very

[00:20:32] true. I think now we also do a lot of work around mindfulness. There is so much stress

[00:20:38] in especially young people. There is so much out there now about mental health and social media.

[00:20:43] It's nice to be able to work on a brand that is purpose-driven

[00:20:47] and where there's a lot of data to say that a lot of these creative pursuits actually help people

[00:20:54] decompress and de-stress the repetitive motion of something like crocheting or knitting actually

[00:21:01] is proven to show that it will lower your stress hormones. People will say creating is their way

[00:21:07] of working through feelings, through their artwork, things like that. I think

[00:21:11] even now where we are as a society, it's being reimagined and playing a role that maybe we've

[00:21:19] not thought of creativity or at least maybe not as overtly have thought of creativity to play in the past.

[00:21:26] Yeah. I think the personal crafts movement really got accelerated during COVID and we saw

[00:21:32] that with outsized performance with platforms like Etsy. Has that continued post-COVID and was

[00:21:37] that an accelerator that you think is staying power or did you see a bump from that and now

[00:21:43] it normalized to pre-COVID levels? Yeah. We definitely saw a bump. I will say I joined

[00:21:47] Michaels in 2022. I came right after what would have been record high years in 2020 and 2021

[00:21:55] because to your point, people were at home. They had kids at home who were bored. It was a great

[00:21:59] time to do creative projects while you were there. We have seen things normalize out a bit.

[00:22:05] We're not back to totally pre-COVID levels. I think there are people who picked up creative

[00:22:10] pursuits and have continued them, but then you definitely had people who were COVID crafters.

[00:22:16] I think especially the demographic of parents with younger kids at home

[00:22:20] who may have themselves been doing creative projects. Now that kids are back in school,

[00:22:25] you're back in work. All the activities have started up again. We hear a lot from those

[00:22:30] customers that just they're time for. While they would love to spend more time doing their

[00:22:34] creative pursuits, it just doesn't fit into life the way that it may have in 2020 or 2021,

[00:22:40] obviously. But then you have a lot of younger people. The point of market entry is really big

[00:22:45] in our category. As you think about even looking on social media, I think that's a big

[00:22:51] accelerator for our category. If you look at what's going on in TikTok or Instagram,

[00:22:56] people showing projects that they're doing, finding different ways to express themselves,

[00:23:01] simple things like friendship bracelets went crazy last year, unsurprisingly.

[00:23:06] Because of Taylor, right?

[00:23:07] Yes, exactly. The whole era's tour and it's really continued. That was one we saw pick up

[00:23:13] towards the very beginning of the summer. While there was definitely a peak in the

[00:23:17] summer, it has stayed as a really hot trend, if you will, that's continuing now.

[00:23:23] The other one is the decorating of the Stanley tumblers. You'll have these

[00:23:27] things that cycle in it.

[00:23:28] Remember, slime used to be a big thing amongst kids, but they were making slime at home. That

[00:23:32] was another big grass trend.

[00:23:33] Oh, yeah. We had to ban the slime in my household. This was before I worked at Michael's because

[00:23:38] it was like we ruined seats in a car where the kids brown slime and all this stuff.

[00:23:44] But yeah, slime. Rainbow loom was another one. Those rubber band things that kids

[00:23:49] used to make. Yeah.

[00:23:51] Yeah. It's crazy how those trends and fads come and go. But it all, I guess,

[00:23:56] is fueled by the same human emotion, which is again an inner desire to create and build things.

[00:24:01] It's interesting because last week I was giving a talk in front of a bunch of professors

[00:24:05] about the role of AI in education. And these were professors in higher ed. So we're talking

[00:24:10] about now slightly older consumer than kids at home. And they're trying to grapple with

[00:24:16] when do we allow AI in the classroom? Yes, we know it's going to be

[00:24:19] a big part of the workforce moving forward. But does that mean we shouldn't have kids

[00:24:24] going through the critical thinking of creating term papers? Because theoretically,

[00:24:29] I can do it for you but then you'll never learn how to write. Do you think Michael's and their

[00:24:34] business model and crafts in general is somewhat AI-proof just because it's based upon, I guess,

[00:24:40] the physicality of touching and feeling things? And how does AI play or you personally think

[00:24:45] it too well plays into the future consumer relative to products you sell?

[00:24:49] Yeah, so I do think there are big pieces of our business that are a bit AI-proof, if you will.

[00:24:55] If you think of someone who loves making friendship bracelets, that's inherently

[00:24:59] a physical thing you make. Put on your arms. And people do like doing that. There is the

[00:25:04] joy of making the thing with your hands that I think will continue to be a thing.

[00:25:10] That said, AI can be a tool for creativity as well. And I think you do see creative,

[00:25:16] I mean even people drawing on their iPads and using digital drawing as a way of expressing

[00:25:22] creativity. I think we'll find new ways through AI to sort of accelerate or create new creative

[00:25:31] pursuits. I don't think we're all the way there yet. We'll have to figure out what that means

[00:25:36] for Michael's but I think if you just look at from a consumer point of view, all the

[00:25:41] ways that people express their creativity, 100%, there is going to be a role of AI in that.

[00:25:47] And already you see some of that right with music, with imagery, people starting to play

[00:25:52] with things which I think opens up a whole broader discussion on sort of IP and where all of that

[00:25:58] goes. But I do think if I look at sort of the core business imagining like a map of our stores,

[00:26:04] a lot of that is about physically creating things. And I don't think that's going away.

[00:26:08] The same way people at one point maybe go back five or six years, it was like, oh,

[00:26:12] it's going to be all e-commerce. People won't want to go to stores anymore.

[00:26:16] People love to come to our store. So I think there is a world where both coexist.

[00:26:21] Yeah, I mean I look at AI, it could be facilitator in that a lot of people when they go to a Michael's

[00:26:26] are like, oh, there's all this great stuff but what do I make? What do I do? I can imagine

[00:26:30] if you're a mom and Zarene Dan, you have a five and three year old at home,

[00:26:34] you can say I have a five and three year old at home and I'm going to Michael's to make crafts.

[00:26:38] What should I make? And what should I buy at Michael's? And then basically it'll give you a

[00:26:42] shopping list and then basically come back almost like you're looking for ingredients

[00:26:46] to make a dinner. Because I think the creativity, the block comes in just

[00:26:50] understanding where to focus because it's almost like a restaurant with no menu. So I

[00:26:53] think that definitely provides opportunities for sure and helping people kind of get started

[00:26:57] in the world of Michael's. Yeah. And that is one thing we hear from customers

[00:27:01] is sometimes the getting started is the hardest part. Yeah, just like writing or any other creative

[00:27:06] pursuit. Yeah, it's like just looking at the blank screen, the blank sheet of paper, whatever it

[00:27:11] is like that needing the initial momentum is a big deal and I think you're exactly right. We do

[00:27:17] a lot of classes and events today. We also have tons of projects like hundreds and hundreds of

[00:27:23] projects online that you can go and look at exactly like a recipe, right? It will show

[00:27:28] you the thing and then give you the supply list of what you need to make that product.

[00:27:32] And I think to your point, AI could put that totally on steroids and probably make it far more immersive

[00:27:38] than it is today or where we might have one version of make this product or make this project.

[00:27:45] Maybe you could have 10 different or 100 different offshoots of that if AI could then

[00:27:49] iterate on the thing that we've created. Right now we actually have humans in a project room

[00:27:54] who are sort of ideating and creating those projects for us or we're partnering with influencers

[00:28:00] and creators on social to work with us to do it. Right, who are curating on your behalf.

[00:28:04] Interesting. So, and you mentioned earlier about Maker Place and I hadn't known about

[00:28:08] Maker Place until I was preparing for this interview but obviously it's an idea that

[00:28:12] makes so much sense. Tell us a little bit about what Maker Place is, what the impetus of it

[00:28:16] is and where do you see it going here in 2024? Yeah, so Maker Place is new which might

[00:28:21] be why you hadn't heard of it yet. We launched in November so still in our very early days

[00:28:27] but it is all about handmade so it is a place to buy handmade goods. We also have our sellers that

[00:28:33] are on there offering classes as well as how to so exactly to that point of even getting started

[00:28:39] or learning new skills, the makers can actually create their own classes or these projects

[00:28:45] with supply lists which gives them another way to earn money but then it gives our consumers

[00:28:50] another way to sort of interact with the brand and continue to build their own skills as well.

[00:28:55] Our aspiration with Maker Place as part of the Michaels ecosystem is really to become that end

[00:29:01] to end place for all creative people to get their needs met. So, whether you are a seller who wants

[00:29:08] to buy your materials at Michaels hopefully and then create whatever it is you're going to sell

[00:29:14] and then sell it on Maker Place or if you're just a customer who loves to buy handmade goods

[00:29:19] and support small businesses Maker Place is a great place to come and find those unique

[00:29:24] authentically handmade goods. And we saw a space in the marketplace around that really

[00:29:31] where there had been handmade goods marketplaces but as they have grown more and more mass produced

[00:29:37] things have come into them and we've worked from customers and we heard also from sellers

[00:29:42] who are like, look I'm a small business I'm making this stuff by hand and now I'm

[00:29:46] competing with things that are mass produced offshore it's really hard to grow your small business

[00:29:52] that way. Yeah, it's interesting. Yeah, so we have the luxury I think because we also have

[00:29:58] the Michaels side of it like we don't need Maker Place to offer all of the mass produced

[00:30:03] stuff because we also have our marketplace on Michaels.com that has tons of pre-made decor

[00:30:09] lots of supplies so there is a place for that we just don't need that place to be

[00:30:13] Maker Place so we can keep it really pure to the intention of being all about handmade and all

[00:30:19] about small business. Yeah, I think like what happened is some of these online marketplaces

[00:30:24] had a mission and then during COVID exploded and in order to keep the growth growing post-COVID as

[00:30:30] consumers habits change as we discuss they have to expand their remit and put more inventory

[00:30:35] on there they may slowly inch away from their core purpose in order to keep the growth growing

[00:30:40] because obviously they have shareholders report to you but to your point that's not your core

[00:30:43] business so you actually can stay true to that because you have this other brand and physical

[00:30:48] retail infrastructure so they could subsidize that business. So I think that does create a great

[00:30:53] opportunity it's an interesting case study in business for sure. Yeah, so moving on and

[00:30:57] shifting gears will be wrapped up here it's been a fascinating interview Mandy so thanks so

[00:31:01] much for taking the time to do it. You've had an awesome career and have worked at really

[00:31:05] big iconic brands and continue to grow as a professional. As you look back on your career

[00:31:11] what are some of the decisions that you think you made right? What are some of the areas that

[00:31:15] you focused on that you think really paid off that allowed you to put yourself in a position

[00:31:19] of CMO today? A few things that I would say one is I am naturally curious if you buy into

[00:31:26] string finders learner is my number one and I think that has served me very, very well.

[00:31:32] I joined P&G literally never having taken a business class so I had a ton to learn. I had

[00:31:38] amazing finance partners in my first few assignments who taught me a lot but I will say I'm never shy

[00:31:44] about asking questions or spending time. I mean YouTube is the most amazing resource if you

[00:31:50] want to learn about anything and so I think it has served me well especially with the way

[00:31:55] marketing has evolved that data science has evolved it is always changing so you have

[00:32:00] to be learning and I think that has always served me really well. I'm also curious about people

[00:32:05] and in general whether you're in insights, data science, marketing it all fundamentally is about

[00:32:11] understanding the needs that people have and then figuring out how you can align your brand

[00:32:17] to better meet those needs and do it in a way that sort of aligns with the purpose of why the

[00:32:22] brand exists. The other thing I would say is knowing when to move on has probably served

[00:32:27] me well which is not an easy thing to do I think even to your point earlier of like a lot of people

[00:32:33] stay at P&G forever and grow their careers really successfully there and I could have done that

[00:32:39] but I think it has served me well to know when it's like okay I like to be on a steep learning

[00:32:45] curve when I start to feel that leveling off it's probably time to move on to the next thing

[00:32:50] whether that is the next assignment within the company or the next thing outside of the company

[00:32:56] to move on and I think that's what allowed me to make some of the jumps that I did to go from

[00:33:02] data science and analytics into marketing was just making some smart moves even sometimes at a time

[00:33:10] probably before I felt 100% comfortable that like oh I know how to do that next thing it's feeling

[00:33:17] like you know enough and then taking the leap and learning the rest when you get there

[00:33:21] which I think a lot of us myself included can have a little bit of the imposter syndrome thing

[00:33:26] of like oh wow everyone else here seems to totally know how to do this and the reality half of us

[00:33:32] sitting in the room are all looking around thinking the same thing but sometimes it's just

[00:33:36] getting over that and making the leap anyways even if it's a little bit scary.

[00:33:40] Yeah it's about pushing yourself outside your comfort zone and I think on the other side of

[00:33:44] your comfort zone you hear so many people say is where all the real opportunities and growth lie

[00:33:49] and you've clearly been able to push yourself in that way.

[00:33:51] So the rap here is there any mantra that you like to live by or I guess go by every day and

[00:33:56] focus on your career? I don't necessarily have a career mantra but I will say what always has

[00:34:03] guided my career choices is one I want to have fun with what I'm doing so I do not subscribe to

[00:34:09] like work should be it's a job it can be a grind I love my work so I always I think do

[00:34:16] my best work when I'm inherently interested in what I'm working on when I'm trying to solve

[00:34:20] problems that I actually want to think about on the weekend or I want to think about on my run

[00:34:25] in the evening and then for me purpose driven is a huge piece of it probably 14 years at P&G

[00:34:31] will burn that into your DNA but really being clear about what we're doing good for consumers

[00:34:39] and how the brand can sort of play a meaningful role which doesn't mean it has to be a huge

[00:34:45] like world changing purpose I think to fuel the joy of creativity feels very purposeful

[00:34:51] and motivating to me but I think that's the other one that has sort of guided assignments I've taken

[00:34:57] are the way that I go about my work is always keeping the consumer front and center and then

[00:35:01] thinking about the role that that brand is playing to make their life a bit better.

[00:35:06] Absolutely well we're excited to see how you're going to continue to fuel that creativity

[00:35:09] joy moving forward and thanks so much Manny for taking the time today it was a great

[00:35:13] interview I cannot wait for our listeners to hear it. Awesome thanks for having me.

[00:35:17] Absolutely on behalf of Susie and every team thanks again to Mandy Rassie to CMO and SVP

[00:35:21] of Michael Stores for joining us today be sure to subscribe, rate and review the

[00:35:24] Speed of Culture podcast on your favorite podcast platform. Till next time see you soon everyone

[00:35:29] take care. The Speed of Culture is brought to you by Susie as part of the Adweek podcast

[00:35:38] network and AX Creator Network. You can listen subscribe to all Adweeks podcast by visiting

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