Past the Skip Button: Gerry Rich on Marketing That Holds Attention

[00:00:00] [SPEAKER_00] I think that when you're a data-driven company and the data is really infiltrating the decision-making process, you're often making films that work with the algorithm that seem like a natural for the given audience. But that prevents companies from taking big, I think, creative swings.

[00:00:16] [SPEAKER_01] To thrive in a rapidly evolving landscape, brands must move at an ever-increasing pace. I'm Matt Britton, founder of Suzy. Join me and key industry leaders as we dive deep into the shifting consumer trends within their industry, why it matters now, and how you can grow. Welcome to the Speed of Culture.

[00:01:04] [SPEAKER_01] I want to take the breakthrough when everyone else is fighting for attention. So great to see you. Thanks so much. I've been really looking forward to this, Gerry, and looking forward to diving in here. Thank you so much for having me. Thrilled to be here. Absolutely. So I guess my first question is just on sort of, obviously your book talks about the history and the evolution of Hollywood and brand building and how to actually make it hit.

[00:01:27] [SPEAKER_01] Is breaking through actually harder today? Or do you think marketers kind of just lost the ability to create those mass cultural moments?

[00:01:35] [SPEAKER_00] I think it's never been more difficult. And I don't like saying in the old days when we used to walk three miles to school, but in the old days, we used to have media, the media landscape was so drastically different that we were able to open movies with 90 plus percent awareness. And now we're hard pressed to get to the 50 and 60 percent level because we don't have those same reach mediums, as you know better than anybody. The fractured landscape of media is so different now. And the attention span is so different through the 90s and going into the 2000s.

[00:02:04] [SPEAKER_00] Linear television was our way of really reaching a mass audience. And they were watching television. They weren't skipping through the commercials and we had forced viewership. So we were able to reach broad reach units, spending a lot of money. And today to get that same kind of audience, the only place we can really go to get that broad reach would be live sports, particularly football. And it's a very expensive proposition. It's a very cluttered environment.

[00:02:26] [SPEAKER_01] And maybe like the Grammys and the Oscars, right? Like the live awards. That would be the only other thing. And even that's dying.

[00:02:31] [SPEAKER_00] Yeah, even that's dying. And certainly I love the Academy Awards, but the viewership has gone down exponentially. Grammys certainly are viewership. But those top 10 prime shows used to be prime units for us. We would cherry pick those shows, pay a premium. Thursday night lineup on NBC was a must have in those days because it had the lineup of primetime television that had very broad reach. And we have nothing like that today.

[00:02:54] [SPEAKER_00] So the digital landscape is there. We could reach audiences in very different ways. We can really segment our audiences in very different targeted ways. But the attention span is just a fraction of a second and everybody's fingers on the skip button. And it's harder and harder and harder to get our materials to really break out. So it's infinitely more difficult.

[00:03:14] [SPEAKER_01] And when you were on Musy TV Thursday night, which I finally remember, you would run, I would imagine, just trailers. And the trailers, you would have 15 to 30 seconds of somebody's attention. And now, to your point earlier, you don't. Are trailers still sort of the tried and true way where movie makers tell their story? Or are there other ways that you have found that evolved over time?

[00:03:35] [SPEAKER_00] It's really a sum of the parts. I think the trailer is still instrumental in kind of planting your flag and really positioning your movie. And the first trailer we put out in the marketplace is likely to be the piece that gets the largest number of viewers. And if you have a second trailer, it may be that the viewership is 50, 70% less. So that first trailer is really crucial in reaching the largest possible audience and really positioning your movie and really getting people interested so they don't dismiss messages from that point on.

[00:04:05] [SPEAKER_00] The analytics that are available from dropping a trailer are just sensational now. It used to be that we looked at the number of views as far as telling the story of success or not. And now it's much more about engagement and how people, are they engaging with the material? You can tell when people sort of tune out during the trailer. 100%. There's nothing worse than having 50 million views and 1,000 conversations and engagements and shares. That just means that you can buy your views. So that viewing number is really just one footnote. But that engagement is where we see if we have

[00:04:35] [SPEAKER_00] any virality. And I could tell you too, the movie, you can see everything, for example, they dropped a trailer back in September and the thing just exploded with organic views. And you see the virality at that point and you know you've got something really special. We also know from trailers too what people are responding to, the conversations that they're having. When you look at the social listening and the data analytics, what are people responding to? What about the story are they responding to? To help us shape the messaging from that point on. So the first trailer drop is invaluable.

[00:05:03] [SPEAKER_01] And what is the anatomy of a great trailer? And does that change over time? Like what needs to be part of it? Obviously, you need to highlight the stars of the film, but what else? Because often you'll watch a trailer and it'll pull you in, but then the actual movie isn't really what the trailer represents, but it kind of, it's almost like clickbait, right? It gets you in.

[00:05:23] [SPEAKER_00] I would say, and again, we always talk about, there are a lot of filmmakers who'll say, let's just do a short teaser. Let's just whet their appetite. And sometimes it's okay to do that. But oftentimes, and again, given that you're going to get the largest number of viewers on that first piece, you've got to hook them in. And it's a balancing act. As a marketer, what you're trying to do is cast the widest net, get as much engagement as possible, tell enough about the story that you're hooking them in. If the piece is too benign, you're going to lose the audience. And they're not going to say anything. They're just going to skip through it.

[00:05:53] [SPEAKER_00] Give them enough meat to it that they know what the story is about, yet they feel like there's more to see. And a lot of times the hesitation to see a movie or not is often because I'm confused. I don't know enough about the story. I'm going to move on. So it's that balancing act of having enough of the key elements that give the movie a reason for being, yet not giving away too much that people feel like I saw the whole movie. And we see that narrative all the time play out. That was a great trailer, but I feel like I saw the whole movie. Or what the hell is that about?

[00:06:22] [SPEAKER_00] So it's finding that. And we do, we put trailers through a really rigorous, in most cases, for wide release films. We put trailers through a really rigorous testing program to make sure that we're reaching the intended audience and casting the widest net and making it as compelling as possible for the largest number of people. So it goes through, we might go through a three-month process of testing materials before they're actually ready for prime time.

[00:06:44] [SPEAKER_01] Yeah, it doesn't surprise me. And it's interesting because it's almost what used to be a trailer is now a full show. You see platforms like YouTube saying there's now shows that are one minute long, right, that you watch on Instagram. And there's many trailers that are more than one minute long.

[00:07:01] [SPEAKER_01] So I think it really speaks to the attention span and the new media consumption habits of Gen Z. You know, they grew up with the iPhone in the household. How does that change the future of movies, do you believe? Like, what is the role of long-form movies, given the fact that Gen Z is now becoming largely the de facto core consumer?

[00:07:19] [SPEAKER_00] And we certainly saw that this year, that Gen Z really wore the turbocharging and the rocket fuel for the box office this past year. And I got to say, when I wrote the book, I finished it back in April. And then May happened. And May was just a seminal month in this post-pandemic period of moviegoing. And the first movie that came out was Prada the first week of May. And that was a sequel in the works for 25 years, which audiences were really excited to see.

[00:07:45] [SPEAKER_00] But then those two phenomenas, the first one was Obsession in mid-May and Backrooms later in May. And there was a little movie called Star Wars in between. But the two movies that really stood out were Obsession and Backrooms propelled by Gen Z audiences. I still think there's an appetite for long-form in any theater viewing. And I think May was an example of a showcase of how originality can really bring in younger audiences.

[00:08:09] [SPEAKER_00] And to see the movies with 200 strangers in a more immersive way. And what better way to watch horror than an immersive environment with lots of people around you? You don't want to ride on a roller coaster by yourself. And that was really, really heartening. And it was great to see the younger audiences really coming back in a big way. So I do think there's the appetite. I think they're very savvy. They know what they want to see. They're very quick to say when it's something they don't want to see. Word of mouth spreads in real time at the speed of light.

[00:08:35] [SPEAKER_00] And I think that studios are now, you know, it's incumbent upon them to reach that audience that they've got to go out with films that have that originality that sparks the interest of that audience that are still going to movies.

[00:08:46] [SPEAKER_01] That's right. What's up about star power? Because obviously there was a time not too long ago when you were either a star or you weren't. There were gatekeepers to make you the next Tom Cruise or Julia Roberts or The Rock or Reese Witherspoon. And now it's sort of blended together with these creators and influencers where in many ways they have a larger reach than some of the traditional A-list Hollywood stars, even though they might not be as much of a household name.

[00:09:11] [SPEAKER_01] How has star power changed over time? How important is it for a movie to have a big star? And what do you think about the creator economy and people who have like if you're a next up and coming actor, how important is it that you do have a large presence on TikTok?

[00:09:25] [SPEAKER_00] Man, it's something we talk about in every Greenlight meeting now. Every time we're looking at a script and looking at the package, which includes the script, the director and the cast, we're always looking at their digital footprint. Now, that isn't the case. You don't want to cast your movies purely on one's digital footprint, but it makes a big difference. If you're making a Jason Statham action movie and he's got 20 million followers on X or what have you, it gives you a real leg up when they're posting, debuting these assets on their social platforms.

[00:09:54] [SPEAKER_00] But I've had films that had a combined half a billion followers between all the cast members. And it doesn't mean that the movie is going to succeed, but it does give you a leg up. It does give you that reach. That's so important. I worked on, I was consulting on a movie this past summer that had two really well-known stars, but they abstained from posting anything, from getting active on social media.

[00:10:18] [SPEAKER_00] And I think that really hurt the movie. I think their fan base is well aware when they're participating and when they're not.

[00:10:24] [SPEAKER_01] It's almost surprising it's not worked into their contracts at this point. Like you want the distribution to be built into the talent.

[00:10:30] [SPEAKER_00] Sometimes it's built in. Oftentimes it's built in, but getting someone to appear on a show to do what was contractually committed to are two different things. And what you don't want to do is twist somebody's arm to post or to participate or to appear on a show and they're sitting there angry and it almost could work in a counterintuitive way.

[00:10:47] [SPEAKER_00] But it's really important. But you do have some actors that still maintain a sense of privacy and mystery, which I think is also good because I think too much exposure then lessens the appetite to see them on a big screen because they see them present day in and day out. I think someone who's been really masterful with their social media is Zendaya.

[00:11:05] [SPEAKER_00] And I think that she really curates her social media accounts. I think she is very engaged with her audience. I think she has a wonderful rapport with her audience and she doesn't want to take advantage of them. She wants to let them in, but also be respectful and not push out a lot of studio material that feels like she's marketing to them. And I worked with her on Challengers and really blown away by how savvy she is and her use of social media and her respect for her fan base and how she uses social media.

[00:11:35] [SPEAKER_00] And she was so enthusiastic about the movie. She went on a six country tour. We made every red carpet like a dance party and she showed up. And La Roche, you know, had her decked out in tennis court every step of the way. And her social media was probably one of our greatest assets in spreading that word from all those different points around the world.

[00:11:52] [SPEAKER_01] Yeah. And I think when you look at the next generation of actors, that is going to be the path not only to be valuable once they've made it and that they're in demand to create a movie, but in order to get there, you need to have a presence, right? I would imagine now it's hard to be somebody who's an up and coming talent that's not on social media.

[00:12:11] [SPEAKER_00] I think so, too. You know, the studio I was working for that I ran marketing for was MGM and we were acquired by Amazon. And Amazon, obviously, a very tech centric company and the mothership of prime video is the streaming operation. And I think you're hard pressed to find a lot of particularly younger skewing programming that doesn't have a cast that has a social following. It's really important. Streaming shows and streaming movies don't have that same marketing degree of marketing dollars that theatrical movies have.

[00:12:39] [SPEAKER_00] They're very, very limited. A lot of the promotion is on platform reaching prime members. So you absolutely need it because you need that following to help elevate the awareness or else these shows can go unnoticed.

[00:12:52] [SPEAKER_01] Yeah. And I'm glad you brought up Amazon because obviously, you know better than anyone that Hollywood center of gravity is really shifting to Silicon Valley. And now the companies that are shaping entertainment are these technology platforms that think in terms of data and subscriptions, ecosystems and algorithms. That's a completely different world than two martini lunches in West Hollywood that you probably also live through, where it's all about relationships.

[00:13:16] [SPEAKER_01] So how has that changed the industry? And what does Big Tech's increasing role mean for the future of moviemaking?

[00:13:23] [SPEAKER_00] Well, a lot of people are talking about it this week, aren't they? With Skydance taking over Warner Brothers and my old company Paramount. And I think we're going to learn a lot quickly. But one thing that I do believe in my heart of hearts, having been doing this for over three decades, is that when you get into the volume business, something's got to give.

[00:13:42] [SPEAKER_00] And oftentimes that's quality. Every movie requires such rigor to get the best possible version of a movie, both in pre-production, making sure the script is absolutely perfect in actual production and post-production. And you've got to break the back of every one of those films to get the best possible outcome. And then the marketing process is its own thing. And we're in difficult times as far as moviegoing attendance. There's no sure thing movie.

[00:14:06] [SPEAKER_00] And it's incumbent upon marketing to break the back of any marketing campaign and find the most compelling message and ensure that when on opening day, you've done everything you could possibly do. And in a digital age, too, that means your campaign is ebbing and flowing every single day. We're in war rooms every single day leading up to opening because we're getting information in real time from audiences about what they're responding to. Are there any problems? How do we lean into what's really resonating for our audience?

[00:14:32] [SPEAKER_00] You can't do that when you're in the volume business. You have to check a lot of boxes and put materials out. But that's not how movies like The Odyssey, that's not how they get to over a billion dollars. They get to that by, obviously, a sensational director, a best-in-class studio, and rigor in the marketing process that started well over a year ago when they put tickets for sale.

[00:14:51] [SPEAKER_01] Does that mean, Jerry, is it more K-shaped then? Is there going to be more big blockbusters like The Odyssey and then a lot of churn and burn movies made for streaming and not a lot in the middle? Is that sort of how you see this all?

[00:15:02] [SPEAKER_00] Well, I think the problem is the movies in the middle are the ones that, for the example of Skydance, they'll have 30 movies on the release date for the next couple of years, 30, 32 movies. And you can't give them all the attention they need. In my opinion, there's going to be the haves and the have-nots. They're going to have the big filmmakers with the loudest voices and the biggest budgets and the highest profile films that make or break a company, certainly in press perception. And then you're going to have a lot of other films jockeying for positions. So you're fighting over release dates. You're fighting over trailer play.

[00:15:30] [SPEAKER_00] You're fighting over just share of bandwidth. And you end up putting out a lot of fires and not necessarily having the time and discipline to have that rigor for every film. So I think these films in the middle are the ones that are going to have the toughest time, while the big franchises and the big blockbusters and the big A directors are going to get what they need. But there's only so many movies that can go out at Christmas. There's only so many movies that can go out at Thanksgiving. There's so many movies that can go out in the summer. And they're all going to be jockeying for those dates. It's hard enough having one a month, let alone two or three a month.

[00:15:59] [SPEAKER_00] And something's going to give. And oftentimes, scaling up can often just lead to a real impediment when it comes to quality. Quality of the actual product and then the quality of the marketing discipline. Yeah, I don't care how big the team is. Ultimately, and when you're talking about marketing a movie, you're talking about not just the cost of the movie, but the marketing cost. Marketing cost has no direct correlation to the cost of production. You might have a movie that costs $20 million that is getting $50 to $70 million in marketing. And so that has got to funnel up.

[00:16:29] [SPEAKER_00] People at the top that have to be intimately involved with every marketing decision that's made of any magnitude for every single movie. So something's going to give in the process. What I was also going to say, too, is I think that when you're a data-driven company and the data is really infiltrating the decision-making process, you're often making films that work with the algorithm that seem like a natural for the given audience. But that prevents companies from taking big, I think, creative swings that don't have a lot of competitive. It almost becomes an echo chamber. It does.

[00:16:57] [SPEAKER_00] This works because the generics on this particular genre are really favorable when it comes to the platform viewing, which, again, doesn't breed a lot of creativity.

[00:17:07] [SPEAKER_01] Well, it becomes more science than art, right? It used to be art, and now it's science. And when it gets to that level and copies are driving algorithms and subscriptions, it needs to fit into a math equation. All of it.

[00:17:18] [SPEAKER_00] I know. And that's what Gen Z is going to rebel against the most. They'll buy into a sequel when it's an inspired sequel, and number three has a reason for being that you haven't seen in number two or number one. And the case in point is Dune. I think Dune 3 will be sensational, and I think it'll do great, and I think Gen Z will show up for that. But you've got a masterful director who took the time to make sure number three was a standalone movie and delivered on its own. But there are many sequels out there that they'll just dismiss because I've seen it, I've done it, I'm not going to pay my money to see it again. So that's the big risk.

[00:17:48] [SPEAKER_00] And I think the Warner Brothers, I mentioned in the book that Warner Brothers took some really big swings last year, and they had, starting with Sinners, original movie, original idea, one of the best filmmakers of our time. And then they had weapons, and then they had one battle after another, and some that are missing. But originality won the day, and that's what brought people back. And now those people who created that slate are gone in this merger, the hit makers.

[00:18:12] [SPEAKER_01] We'll be right back with The Speed of Culture after a few words from our sponsors. Let's talk about another hot button topic, which is AI. Obviously, it continues to grow in its potency in the creative world, and in some instances, it's becoming increasingly indistinguishable in terms of what's real and what is AI-driven. How is the movie-making industry ingesting this new AI capability, and where do you think it's going to evolve in the year ahead?

[00:18:37] [SPEAKER_00] Well, I think probably in the months ahead. I would love to hear you talk about it for an hour because you're in the center of it all. We're somewhat, I think, behind the curve a bit in how it's going to be utilized for us. What we feel like more than anything is that our audiences, particularly young audiences on social media, are looking for authenticity more than ever. And we've got to be really careful that we tell authentic stories with an authentic voice and don't feel like that tech is taking over our messaging.

[00:19:03] [SPEAKER_00] I do think in terms of cost-cutting, there are lots of great things that AI can help us do as far as modifying formats just on a cost-saving standpoint that's impervious to the consumer. But just the way we have to adapt all of our assets, all our materials and trailers and short-form spots into different formats for different platforms, I think AI is really going to help us expedite that process and do it a lot less costly.

[00:19:25] [SPEAKER_00] I think that also the social media platforms have developed some amazing, incredible tools in AI to help us more sharpen our targeting of different audiences in every way conceivable. But also getting a lot of data that help us understand what people are leaning into, where are they spending their time, and help us then take our suite of assets to make sure that we're deploying them properly and the most effectively. But I think it's somewhat nascent for us as far as its use and how it'll impact us.

[00:19:52] [SPEAKER_00] I think it's going to have a big impact in the staffing issues in time, and everybody's going to have their own personal AI assistant shortly, and that's going to definitely come into play.

[00:20:01] [SPEAKER_01] What about producers using AI to make extras and background scenes and things which used to require heavy production costs? I mean, you have to imagine they're going to go in that direction because they're saving so much time and money.

[00:20:13] [SPEAKER_00] Yeah, I think the audience is very smart and very discerning, and whatever you put in front of it, if it feels like AI, and it feels like they're getting shortcuts, and it feels cheap and inauthentic, I think there's got to be a lot of testing. That's assuming they can discern the difference, right? That's assuming. And at the beginning, you've got to believe that in a lot of cases, they'll be able to discern the difference.

[00:20:33] [SPEAKER_00] But where you're able to add production value that isn't discernible, that is, you know, look at visual effects and the evolution of visual effects, and how they added to this immersive big screen experience that you can't replicate at home. That was for the better. That was an enhancement for the viewer that made going to a movie worth expense.

[00:20:50] [SPEAKER_00] So wherever it can be used to enhance the viewer's experience and make it feel more immersive, but where it falls short and where audiences are saying bullshit, that is AI at its worst, I think that's when it's got to pass the smell test, and it's got to be used in a way that is enhancing the experience, but not feeling like you've replaced the artist with technology and we can tell the difference.

[00:21:11] [SPEAKER_01] Absolutely. Let's shift gears a little bit to the book. First and foremost, what gave you the conviction and time and energy to write the book, and what do you hope the readers will get out of it?

[00:21:21] [SPEAKER_00] And I've got to say, too, the reason, the catalyst for me writing the book is when my studio was consumed by Amazon, acquired by Amazon, I was in a very different culture than anything I had been in before, which was just kind of a statement of where the industry was at the time. I mean, big tech was moving in and having a higher profile in the film business that was traditionally run by people who love movies.

[00:21:42] [SPEAKER_00] And it just inspired me to look back, and I've been doing this for over three decades, and look at the evolution of the film business, look at the evolution of marketing, and I thought it was a great time to reflect back on that evolution, which I think in a way can be prescriptive for the future in what can work and what are those learnings and how do they apply to the future of this exponential change that we're all experiencing.

[00:22:02] [SPEAKER_00] I've had different experiences in the past that are from a scrappy entrepreneurial standpoint that were budgets that didn't exist in companies that didn't have any marketing dollars and learned that discipline. And I've worked for the biggest studios that had an abundance of that had higher budgets, and it's a way of connecting those two disciplines in a way that could, I think, accentuate and help any marketer in any kind of project. So it was a great time for me to reflect back during all this change and actually kind of point to the future with some prescriptive notions.

[00:22:33] [SPEAKER_00] And for me, it was a wonderful opportunity to go back on the front row seat I've had in a lot of rooms that I never saw myself in, you know, as a kid and meeting some of the heroes along the way. And I thought I could share that. I also hope that there was an inspirational message to, I was a kid from St. Louis, I went to movies every week, fell in love with movies, and had this dream at the earliest of age to find my way to California and be part of this business that was so captivating to me.

[00:22:58] [SPEAKER_00] It was my escape into other worlds. And I hope for some that feel like they have dreams that are beyond their reach. I hope that this is also a little bit of a roadmap or a guide to how to pursue those things that seem unattainable. So I hope it delivers to people in very different ways. I hope marketers can identify and relate to a lot of the stories and hopefully get some learnings out of it. I also think that there's always been an insatiable appetite for that inside Hollywood story.

[00:23:25] [SPEAKER_00] And people flock to shows like The Studio. And these were real stories with real people. And through my lens as a wide-eyed kid, still in awe over the world I'm living in and sharing that with everybody else. So it's funny. It's, I hope, heartwarming. I hope it's motivational. And for marketers in particular, it was my love and passion at the earliest age to be somehow involved in marketing. And I started pursuing it when I was 15 years old with my first internship at an ad agency.

[00:23:53] [SPEAKER_00] And that was the starting point. And I hope that, you know, whether you're a creator marketing yourself or a brand marketer, I hope there's some takeaways out of here that, out of the book that will really relate to what it is they do and share those experiences with them.

[00:24:06] [SPEAKER_01] And when you look back at your career journey and you've worked at so many of the most prolific studios that really shaped Hollywood and entertainment over the years, what do you think you did right in the rearview mirror that continued to give you opportunity after opportunity to work at these great organizations and create such great opportunities for yourself?

[00:24:25] [SPEAKER_00] I think the thing that I did more than anything else was combine the traditional with the untraditional. It was to take harness all aspects of marketing. And I don't say this slightly as what I learned early on in my career where studios tended to have a siloed operation and the media people worked in the media org and the, and the creative people worked in their own silo. And there was very little overlap between the different entities. And that's problematic. Marketing is best when we're all the various areas of marketing,

[00:24:53] [SPEAKER_00] not only intersect, but they overlap and it's getting the right team together, building the right team and getting the alchemy where you guys are all firing on the, on all cylinders and synced up in a way that is impenetrable. And I think that I don't say that lightly too, because I think one thing that I appreciate more than anything is when you do assemble the right team, all bets are off. You have passion, you, you feel safe. You feel like you can do the best, the most extraordinary work together.

[00:25:21] [SPEAKER_00] And whether it's a big all audience tentpole movie or a small independent movie for us, having that alchemy and being able to borrow the best from everybody without fear, without intimidation, without ego has been, I think the one thing that I do a little bit differently than everybody else. And also the approach to marketing, I say in the book too, I don't think any two marketing plans should look alike. The nuance of every movie requires a different approach and a different approach and target audience. Different approach in media buying.

[00:25:49] [SPEAKER_00] And I find too, with a lot of movies, they tend to have a fairly cookie cutter approach, particularly when you're working in the volume business. And I want every plan for any movie to really a blank slate going in and nothing that's formulaic or cookie cutter and feeling like every plan is very unique and distinguishable from another. So it's employing the traditional media with the untraditional, the scrappy entrepreneurial approach with the traditional to me is a hybrid that doesn't always exist.

[00:26:17] [SPEAKER_00] And it's just breaking the back of any single campaign to ensure that with the most compelling message, reaching the most viable audience. We get one shot when we're opening movies and it's Friday night. And if it doesn't work on Friday night, we're dead.

[00:26:29] [SPEAKER_01] And obviously the heart of moviemaking is storytelling. And when you look back on your journey, as you recently did in writing the book, what makes a great storyteller? And when you've interacted with people who you knew were just really incredible creative talents, what is normally the common thread?

[00:26:44] [SPEAKER_00] The common thread is their understanding of an audience and telling a story with passion, conviction, and also delivering the promise of what the movie intends to be. If it's a comedy, that it really delivers those laugh out loud moments, that it engages the audiences with characters that feel original. And I think of a director like Mike Nichols, who knows his audience and has a quality to his characters and a richness in dialogue and knows that if it's a comedy, audiences are going to be laughing out loud

[00:27:14] [SPEAKER_00] many times during the movie and walk out very satisfied. I can juxtapose that with another director who was making comedy. And I remember sitting with him before he made the movie and I said, tell me what are the moments of the movie that are going to really get to an audience and give them big laughs and make them feel satisfied at the end of the movie? And he said, well, the movie is more of a smile than it is a laugh. So it was a movie that wasn't going to deliver the genre it was intended to live in. So it's these storytellers that are perfectionists. Everything matters.

[00:27:42] [SPEAKER_00] Every frame of the film is important. The look of the film, the richness of the dialogue, and that audiences walk out feeling like they got their money's worth in a movie that they'll talk about for some time to come. I love that. It's a great overview.

[00:27:55] [SPEAKER_01] And speaking of stories, we always wrap our podcast by asking our guests if there's a quote or mantra that helps them encapsulate their career journey. And given the fact that you just went through this reflective process, super curious to what might come to mind for you.

[00:28:08] [SPEAKER_00] For me, boy, that's a tough one. There are so many. It really does come down to believe in yourself, that there are so many moments that you're in doubt when something doesn't work or when in the movie business you have a number of movies that don't work and you're out the door and then your boss is out the door two weeks later. It shakes your confidence. It's having that strength and conviction in yourself and know that you care, you're good at what you do, you're a good person to work for, and that don't be defined by some things that are happening around you.

[00:28:37] [SPEAKER_00] And for me, particularly for marketers that sometimes have misses, you know you're putting everything into it that you can do and sometimes it still doesn't work. And so it's having that power of conviction and that self-confidence and believing in what you're doing and knowing that it isn't always going to work out, but that means it'll take you to the next step. And it is a journey and they're not all going to be positive steps along the way.

[00:28:57] [SPEAKER_01] I love that. It's great advice. Every no gets you closer to yes, as they say. It's all about perseverance, especially in a world as challenging as Hollywood and the movie industry is. So this has been such a great conversation, Jerry. It was fantastic. I hope the audience definitely goes and picks up a copy of your book, Chasing Hollywood, a marketing chief's lessons on breaking through. I'm sure available everywhere books are sold, including Amazon. Or maybe you'll go support a local bookstore in picking up Jerry's book. So Jerry, thanks so much for joining on behalf of Susie and Iwi team.

[00:29:26] [SPEAKER_01] Thanks again to the great Jerry Rich, film marketing consultant and author for joining us today. Be sure to subscribe, rate, and review the Speed of Culture podcast on your favorite podcast platform. See you soon, Jerry. Thank you, Matt. Thanks for having me. Absolutely. Bye-bye, everyone. The Speed of Culture is brought to you by Suzy as part of the Adweek Podcast Network and Agass Creator Network. You can listen and subscribe to all Adweek's podcasts by visiting adweek.com slash podcasts. To find out more about Susie, head to susie.com.

[00:29:56] [SPEAKER_01] And make sure to search for the Speed of Culture in Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or anywhere else podcasts are found. Click follow so you don't miss out on any future episodes. On behalf of the team here at Susie, thanks for listening. You'll see you in the next one.

[00:30:08] Bye. Bye.