From Everest to Urban Streets: The Evolution of The North Face with CMO Sophie Bambuck

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[00:01:04] Everything we do is athlete, we consider this athlete tested expedition proven.

[00:01:08] So we have an athlete team. We have 150 athletes worldwide.

[00:01:12] They are the best in the outdoor space.

[00:01:15] They are the people who do the first descents, the first descents, they are snowboarders and trail runners.

[00:01:20] They test the product. They rely on the product to live, to survive.

[00:01:25] We actually give them product in the harshest conditions in the world.

[00:01:32] To thrive in a rapidly evolving landscape, brands must move in an ever-increasing pace.

[00:01:37] I'm Matt Britton, founder and CEO of Suzy.

[00:01:39] Join me and key industry leaders as we dive deep into the shifting consumer trends within their industry.

[00:01:44] Why it matters now and how you can keep up. Welcome to the speed of culture.

[00:01:49] Today we're thrilled to be joined by Sophie Bambuck, the CMO of North Face.

[00:01:58] In 2018, Sophie was named one of Forbes 50 CMOs who were redefined in the role when six years later.

[00:02:03] She has no intentions slowing down.

[00:02:05] Sophie, so great to see you here in Las Vegas for CES.

[00:02:08] Thanks for having me. Very excited.

[00:02:09] Absolutely. You know, 20 CES has not always been the conference that every marketer came to.

[00:02:14] It was actually originally just people who made actual consumer electronics.

[00:02:18] Why is it important for North Face to be at a conference like this and understand the world of technology?

[00:02:23] Yeah. I mean, I think there's this twofold one is relationship.

[00:02:26] There's a lot of people in the industry now that we know who are here.

[00:02:30] We actually also see a lot of media partners that are now at CES.

[00:02:33] So it's important for us to brand to be here and make sure that we get the face time during the year.

[00:02:37] We usually don't get to see each other very much.

[00:02:39] So this is a moment.

[00:02:40] And then also we just want to know what's coming up.

[00:02:42] What's coming next?

[00:02:43] I mean, CES is a place where all the new cool stuff is happening.

[00:02:47] So we want to see what's going on.

[00:02:48] I'm going to actually tomorrow morning, I'm planning on walking the floor to see health and wellness and sport just to see what's up.

[00:02:54] Even if I don't actually have a direct business, I'm curious.

[00:02:56] I want to know what's out there.

[00:02:57] You never know where inspiration comes from, right?

[00:02:59] Yeah. And I think the world of fitness and technology have obviously very much overlapped in the last couple years with the Apple Watch and with the R-Ring and the Whoop and all that.

[00:03:10] So I mean, is that space that North Face is actively looking at?

[00:03:13] No, not actively.

[00:03:14] I mean, it's a space that we're interested in, of course.

[00:03:17] It's not a space that we're necessarily investing in.

[00:03:20] I think right now it's more because we're so focused on our apparel for wear innovation.

[00:03:24] This is very much where we are focused.

[00:03:26] But even in that, when you think about apparel innovation nowadays within your apparel, there's so much you can do.

[00:03:31] So again, maybe it's less purposeful right now.

[00:03:34] It's more curiosity.

[00:03:35] I think eventually we'll probably get to a place where it makes sense.

[00:03:38] But in my career, I've had many stints working on wearables and all that.

[00:03:42] And I see when it works and very often also it doesn't work.

[00:03:45] So we're not rushing in.

[00:03:47] It would need to make a lot of sense for us to go there.

[00:03:49] Yeah.

[00:03:50] And speaking of our own career, you spent 15 years in Nike, obviously iconic brand.

[00:03:54] If you look back at your entire stint there, what were some of the main takeaways?

[00:03:58] Because obviously they do so many things right.

[00:04:01] I would imagine that you learned so much there.

[00:04:04] What comes to mind?

[00:04:05] Yeah.

[00:04:06] I mean, when you're a marketer, I think it's the best school for marketing.

[00:04:09] Nike does Nike marketing.

[00:04:11] It doesn't always translate or transfer to other brands.

[00:04:14] That's the number one question when I've gone to other brands, people always ask,

[00:04:18] can we do the same that Nike does?

[00:04:20] Well actually it's kind of hard.

[00:04:22] Nike has a specific way of doing things and it doesn't work very well.

[00:04:25] But I do think that I've learned the value of brand.

[00:04:27] I've learned the value of creative.

[00:04:29] I've learned the value of product marketing and how product marketing can be brand and aspirational.

[00:04:35] Well to the consumer, it's all very much connected.

[00:04:37] Exactly.

[00:04:38] It's really about providing benefits to the consumer and solving problems

[00:04:41] that they might not even know that they had.

[00:04:43] And so in the process of doing that, how'd you build your brand?

[00:04:46] How'd you create affinity for your product?

[00:04:48] And honestly Nike has been one of the best at this.

[00:04:51] So I have to say that's the number one thing I learned.

[00:04:54] I learned how to be a marketer.

[00:04:56] I learned what it is to be a well-rounded marketer.

[00:04:59] But then also there's the benefit of Nike being such a powerhouse

[00:05:02] that you said it does a lot of things right.

[00:05:04] Actually it does a lot of things wrong but the beauty is actually failure is encouraged

[00:05:09] because you learn from it and then you reiterate and you improve.

[00:05:12] And that's obviously something that only a very healthy and big company can afford to do.

[00:05:18] But that's the beauty of working with such a big brand is you can actually fail and learn.

[00:05:22] When you don't fail, you don't evolve right?

[00:05:24] And so I'd say that's the other thing that I learned is to take risks and experiment.

[00:05:29] Yeah I know it's Hollywood but you know the movie air,

[00:05:32] you know they go through the formulation of their Jordans.

[00:05:36] And before they met and brought on Michael Jordan,

[00:05:39] they talked about the sneaker or the basketball brand was like about to go under.

[00:05:44] They couldn't get it right and they kept trying and trying and then finally they hit gold with Michael Jordan.

[00:05:49] So it's kind of a microcosm of what you're talking about.

[00:05:52] You have to fail, fail until you finally get it.

[00:05:54] And it's about having big ambitious goals.

[00:05:56] Even if it feels unattainable or even if it feels like there's no way.

[00:05:59] That's what I loved.

[00:06:00] I don't know if Nike today does the same thing but back in the day

[00:06:03] it was very much about we're going to become a women's brand or we're going to skate.

[00:06:08] I mean Nike going to football soccer was a big deal.

[00:06:14] Yeah US based company diving in, Adida had a huge presence already.

[00:06:18] It was even internally it was like can we do this?

[00:06:22] And going after skate was the same thing.

[00:06:24] I mean skaters did not really want a big brand getting into skate

[00:06:27] and then you saw the work of Sene Boedekker and all that.

[00:06:31] It was beautiful, big ambitious goals.

[00:06:33] What goes into entering a new category like that going into skate at a company like Nike?

[00:06:38] Authenticity, making sure the right people are involved in the conversation

[00:06:43] that you're taking as much insight from the community as possible

[00:06:46] and making sure that everything that comes out whether it starts with product always

[00:06:51] but everything is thought through again when I say serving the consumer

[00:06:56] with that authenticity and that insight how do you actually build the best product

[00:07:00] with the resources that you have.

[00:07:02] So again when you're a big company like that it's easier because you have access to a lot.

[00:07:06] But you can always just buy your way in.

[00:07:08] We've seen a lot of companies try to buy their way in to compete with Nike

[00:07:11] and they weren't able to succeed yet.

[00:07:12] It doesn't work and again that's also why sometimes you try

[00:07:15] but if you didn't have the right insight you have to go back to the drawing board

[00:07:17] and do it again.

[00:07:18] So really at the core is making sure do you understand your audience?

[00:07:22] The new audience that you're going after always.

[00:07:25] So what's behind the decision to leave a company like Nike?

[00:07:28] You're on the fast track there, you were there for 15 years

[00:07:31] working your way up the corporate ladder at an iconic company

[00:07:34] and one day you say you know what I'm ready to try something else.

[00:07:37] Like what goes behind that decision?

[00:07:39] A lot definitely it's scary mostly because at the time people did not really leave Nike

[00:07:44] and so making that decision was scary because I didn't really have anybody to talk to

[00:07:49] about how do you leave Nike.

[00:07:50] I mean literally I had one friend of mine called and I'm like how did you leave

[00:07:54] like what's the process to leave that's how infrequent that was.

[00:07:58] For me it was about a few things one is I had this fear of a 15 year mark

[00:08:02] I was worried that if I had only done one big company for 15 years

[00:08:07] then people would just think that I only know how to do one thing

[00:08:11] and I didn't want that to be the case so I felt like I had always in my mind

[00:08:14] this 15 year mark.

[00:08:15] Now I love the brand.

[00:08:17] How arbitrary isn't it 15 years?

[00:08:19] Yeah I don't know it was something that I put in my head

[00:08:21] I don't know you know.

[00:08:22] The corporate version of 7 year itch.

[00:08:24] Yeah at least because I passed the 10 years and I'm okay we'll find the next one

[00:08:27] to 15 but you know to this day still love the brand.

[00:08:30] It's a great brand and I will never not love the brand

[00:08:33] but I realized that I could love the brand and not work there

[00:08:36] and so that just that was like full of light bulb for me to realize

[00:08:40] I didn't have to work there and then I wanted to learn more.

[00:08:43] I was in senior roles where I was pretty disconnected from the marketing mix

[00:08:49] and I wanted to really understand more about the digital marketing environment

[00:08:54] and data at Nike it was very separate.

[00:08:58] It wasn't part of my day-to-day I mean I would set strategy

[00:09:01] but then there would be teams just making it happen

[00:09:03] and I wasn't necessarily a part of that

[00:09:05] and I wanted to be the person moving up the dial up and down

[00:09:09] and I knew I couldn't do it there

[00:09:11] and then I wanted to get my hands dirty and I want to learn more

[00:09:14] and then you know and the other thing that happened is

[00:09:16] there was a massive reorg and the categories went away

[00:09:19] and I used to run Nike Sportswear

[00:09:21] and that new operating model didn't make sense to me too much.

[00:09:24] Right so you felt like she was time.

[00:09:25] It was time.

[00:09:26] Yeah.

[00:09:27] So I went to a digital native startup to get my hands dirty.

[00:09:30] And how was that going from a big company to like it was Erolane

[00:09:33] that must have been culture shock for you?

[00:09:35] I was prepared to talk to enough people to understand the landscape

[00:09:38] but yeah for sure I mean you know you go from like complaining

[00:09:42] about your op-seem to not having an op-seem you know

[00:09:45] so I really liked it.

[00:09:47] I learned a lot I mean talk about getting your hands dirty

[00:09:51] I mean nor sending an email about a new pair of jeans

[00:09:54] on the hottest day of the year you know the stuff that like

[00:09:56] I had never had to really think about and tweaking daily

[00:10:00] looking at numbers daily definitely weekly but for sure daily

[00:10:04] at that time I definitely did more data crunching

[00:10:07] than I had done before so no I it was a really really good

[00:10:12] experience and it's such a good brand I love Erolane's.

[00:10:15] I was already a consumer before joining.

[00:10:18] So what was behind the decision for you to join your face?

[00:10:22] What about North Face, excited you?

[00:10:24] And tell me about your role today and where your focus is.

[00:10:27] I got worried that marketing wasn't right for me anymore

[00:10:30] when I left Erolane because a lot of the roles out there

[00:10:34] were so heavy growth and performance and that's not who I am.

[00:10:38] I mean it's part of what I do and I understand it

[00:10:41] and I can do it that's not what I want to do every day.

[00:10:43] I want to set strategy I want to think about who the consumer

[00:10:45] will be in three years I want to cook shit you know

[00:10:48] I want to have fun and actually build a brand

[00:10:52] and there's not that many companies that are willing

[00:10:54] to invest in brand which creates an opportunity 100%

[00:10:58] and I'm seeing the pendulum swinging and seeing now

[00:11:00] companies starting to say okay we're realizing

[00:11:02] we need to get back into that brand space also performance

[00:11:04] is much harder now with all the privacy changes

[00:11:06] that have been enacted by Google and Apple.

[00:11:08] I'm super excited about that change I mean

[00:11:10] I think it's also going to make the conversations

[00:11:13] with CFOs a lot easier it's like hey we can't track this anymore

[00:11:16] so we're gonna go do that.

[00:11:17] It's very much cyclical because there's the email marketing

[00:11:19] era where everyone did it before there was direct mail

[00:11:21] you have these kind of direct mediums programmatic

[00:11:24] was the most recent one and then it kind of shifts back

[00:11:26] and I think you're always going to have that push and pull.

[00:11:29] Absolutely and I think joining the North Face

[00:11:32] allowed me to still do brand and there's not

[00:11:35] that many companies in the world that are brands.

[00:11:37] They call themselves brands they're not necessarily

[00:11:39] brands and not necessarily investing in brand the North Faces

[00:11:42] and that's why I mean it was a no-brainer.

[00:11:44] The other thing is I'm at this stage in my career where

[00:11:47] there's a lot more about the people that I work with

[00:11:49] and Nicole Otto our brand president was assembling

[00:11:52] a really killer team and it was like of course

[00:11:54] of course I want to be a part of that team.

[00:11:56] So what does it mean to be CMO of a company

[00:11:58] that is so brand focused like where are you spending your time

[00:12:01] and how do you define the North Face brand in that regard?

[00:12:04] Yeah I mean when you think of the North Face

[00:12:06] very often you think big mountain, big sky, Everest.

[00:12:09] Right you're seeing somebody summiting or...

[00:12:12] Hiking tents yeah.

[00:12:13] Hiking tents or you see the beautiful

[00:12:16] snowboard line coming down the mountain

[00:12:18] that's kind of like traditionally what has been

[00:12:20] and that's still in my head when I think about the North Face

[00:12:22] I definitely think about you know or the Yosemite

[00:12:24] North Face and that's not going away.

[00:12:26] That still is I believe the DNA of the North Face

[00:12:28] and that's still who we are.

[00:12:30] Exploration, adventure.

[00:12:31] Exploration, aspiration, adventure.

[00:12:34] The outdoors, human potential absolutely.

[00:12:37] It's still at the core of who we are and what we do.

[00:12:40] And to me it also translates to quality right?

[00:12:42] You have to be able to trust the product.

[00:12:44] You know it's not going to let you down

[00:12:46] if you're out in the middle of the mountain.

[00:12:48] For sure everything we do is athlete

[00:12:50] we consider this athlete tested expedition proven.

[00:12:53] So we have an athlete team.

[00:12:55] We have 150 athletes worldwide.

[00:12:57] They are the best in the outdoor space.

[00:13:00] They are the people who do the first descents,

[00:13:02] the first descents.

[00:13:03] They are snowboarders and trail runners.

[00:13:05] They test the product.

[00:13:07] They rely on the product to live, to survive.

[00:13:10] We actually give them product in the

[00:13:12] carstress conditions in the world.

[00:13:14] You're in a snowstorm in the middle of a mountain

[00:13:16] and you're in one of your sleeping bags in tents

[00:13:18] and you're relying on the North Face

[00:13:19] to keep you warm and get you through the night.

[00:13:21] Totally.

[00:13:22] Or you're hanging by with one hand

[00:13:24] and you need to be able to really quickly open

[00:13:26] your zipper with the other to grab your mask

[00:13:28] or to make sure that zipper opens when you did to open.

[00:13:31] It's literally what could be life or death.

[00:13:33] It's life or death.

[00:13:34] So not for all of them but in the most

[00:13:36] extreme sense it is life or death.

[00:13:38] And so we have a responsibility.

[00:13:40] So it's your point about quality.

[00:13:42] It's your point about being what athletes

[00:13:45] need as they evolve as athletes also

[00:13:47] and then after that figuring out,

[00:13:48] okay great now we've served the edge.

[00:13:50] How do we actually trickle that down

[00:13:52] to the mass?

[00:13:54] Because maybe the mass doesn't need

[00:13:56] the pocket where Conrad Anker needs the pocket.

[00:13:59] Right but that's kind of the case with everything.

[00:14:01] You see the commercials for the Jeep going over

[00:14:03] the rocks on the river and people aren't doing that.

[00:14:05] People are driving in the suburbs of the mall

[00:14:07] so that's very common.

[00:14:09] Very common but you need to be inspired by

[00:14:11] the use case needs to be inspired

[00:14:14] by the most extreme condition

[00:14:16] and we innovate for the most extreme condition

[00:14:18] and we design for the most extreme condition

[00:14:21] and then from there yeah we translate that

[00:14:23] to the consumer.

[00:14:24] How do you translate it to a broader audience?

[00:14:26] So again we start with performance innovation

[00:14:28] and then after that we kind of

[00:14:30] I talk about dials a lot but it's like

[00:14:32] when it's about the extreme condition

[00:14:34] we dial up the performance innovation

[00:14:36] and maybe dial down the style.

[00:14:38] There's still style but we dial it down

[00:14:40] when it's actually same jacket but for

[00:14:42] use in the street or in New York City.

[00:14:44] Because it had become a fashion symbol as well

[00:14:46] in North Face jackets yeah.

[00:14:47] Was that by accident?

[00:14:48] Did North Face become sort of a lifestyle

[00:14:50] fashion brand by accident

[00:14:52] by design?

[00:14:53] Well it's before my time so I'll say

[00:14:55] you know at this point everything is hearsay right?

[00:14:57] I've heard so many stories.

[00:14:59] I think it's a little bit by accident.

[00:15:01] What is not an accident is the product was designed

[00:15:04] to serve a very specific condition

[00:15:06] cold weather and they were designed

[00:15:08] in a certain way and with a certain color

[00:15:10] because it looked good.

[00:15:12] So that's purposeful.

[00:15:13] Right those are two pretty good attributes

[00:15:14] for a winter jacket.

[00:15:15] Exactly and now the fact that

[00:15:17] you know the street basically

[00:15:19] adopted it organically

[00:15:21] and saw the jacket and decided to wear it

[00:15:23] and it culturally it picked up from that

[00:15:26] it became an icon.

[00:15:27] It is an iconic piece of outerwear.

[00:15:29] We're talking about the Nupsy jacket here specifically.

[00:15:31] I think that growth, that organic growth

[00:15:33] is a little bit you know once the consumer

[00:15:35] takes it they make it an icon.

[00:15:37] As a brand you can't make something out of it.

[00:15:39] Yeah well I also think that consumers

[00:15:41] smell authenticity and they smell

[00:15:43] the opposite.

[00:15:44] They smell when people are trying to figure

[00:15:46] by their way in.

[00:15:47] So just the same way that Nike was able

[00:15:49] to gain it in categories.

[00:15:51] It was built within the realm of authenticity

[00:15:53] and consumers kind of felt that

[00:15:55] both literally and figuratively

[00:15:57] and they got adopted.

[00:15:58] 100% and we're seeing it cyclical as well right

[00:16:01] so we're seeing somebody dubbed it like

[00:16:03] what do they call him in Gorm Core.

[00:16:05] It's like you're seeing the adoption

[00:16:07] of performance innovation in style

[00:16:09] and fashion on the street.

[00:16:11] It's not new.

[00:16:12] The Nupsy it happened I mean this was

[00:16:14] the first jacket where people were wearing on at risk right.

[00:16:16] This happened with an upseat this happened

[00:16:18] with a tech where everybody thought that was the coolest.

[00:16:21] It was extreme ski gear

[00:16:23] and people were just wearing it in New York City.

[00:16:25] So it's cyclical this keeps on coming back.

[00:16:28] Thankfully your product looks good

[00:16:30] and people want to wear it but it's not necessarily

[00:16:32] developed intentionally for the street.

[00:16:34] It's developed for the mountain.

[00:16:36] It's developed for the outdoors

[00:16:38] and it gets adopted organically

[00:16:40] in the street but that's how you know you have icons.

[00:16:42] That's how you know you're doing well

[00:16:44] is when the consumer decides what is

[00:16:46] going to work and what is going to

[00:16:48] stand the test of time or not.

[00:16:50] All we can do is just do the best we can

[00:16:52] best design, best innovation

[00:16:54] and really hope that it picks up.

[00:16:56] We'll be right back with the speed of culture

[00:16:58] after a few words from our sponsors.

[00:17:18] Hey Dave. Yeah Randy.

[00:17:23] Since we founded Bombas,

[00:17:25] we've always said our socks, underwear and t-shirts

[00:17:27] are super soft. Any new ideas?

[00:17:30] Maybe sublimely soft.

[00:17:32] Or disgustingly cozy.

[00:17:34] Wait what?

[00:17:35] I got it. Bombas.

[00:17:37] Absurdly comfortable, essential,

[00:17:39] and it's not like you're going to get a

[00:17:41] bad cold.

[00:17:42] It's not like you're going to get a bad cold.

[00:17:44] It's not like you're going to get a bad cold.

[00:17:47] There's not more than one purchase

[00:17:51] equals one donation.

[00:17:53] And so we got recording time andторы

[00:17:56] and such up.

[00:17:57] I movie conferred one and one purchase

[00:17:59] equals 1 donation pointless.

[00:18:01] Absurdly comfortable essentials for yourself

[00:18:06] and for those facing homelessness

[00:18:08] Because 1 purchase equals 1 donated.

[00:18:10] Wow, did we just write an ad?

[00:18:12] Yes.

[00:18:14] Bombas. Big comfort for everyone.

[00:18:16] attracted to different products and how to effectively communicate that.

[00:18:19] How do you go about doing that?

[00:18:20] Who are the core consumers that you have?

[00:18:22] Chief Product Officer Jordan at the same time as I did.

[00:18:25] And the first thing that we agreed upon is to kind of move away from consumer segmentation.

[00:18:29] We actually work with mindsets.

[00:18:31] So we've developed four mindsets.

[00:18:33] So psychographics versus demographics.

[00:18:35] Yes, in a way.

[00:18:36] I mean it's more about behaviors and intent.

[00:18:39] And so I always use the example we have one of our athletes is somebody named Jimmy

[00:18:44] Chin who is very famous and he's on the right.

[00:18:46] He's a award-winning director as well.

[00:18:48] But I always use his example is like he climbs Everest and in that moment in time he has a

[00:18:54] certain mindset.

[00:18:55] He has an intent, he has a purpose and he needs gear for that particular moment in time.

[00:18:59] Then he might go on a surfing trip with his friends and he needs to be geared up for

[00:19:03] that and we need to serve him when he's in that mindset which is maybe more community

[00:19:06] oriented.

[00:19:07] And then he really cares about conservation and he goes to Patagonia and does efforts

[00:19:10] over there.

[00:19:11] To serve that mindset and then he is on the red carpet.

[00:19:15] And we also want to be able to serve that mindset when really he's more worried about

[00:19:18] looking good.

[00:19:19] That's true for everybody.

[00:19:20] We all have those mindsets.

[00:19:21] Now it might not be Everest, it might be another obsessive or kind of like more intense

[00:19:26] mindset.

[00:19:27] But we all have those four mindsets.

[00:19:29] So it's really a question of like how do we serve those mindsets versus serving

[00:19:34] before we had like I think we had like nine consumer segments or something.

[00:19:37] Right.

[00:19:38] And you would have like the extreme skier.

[00:19:39] This is Peggy.

[00:19:40] Before she was in the Midwest, she has two kids.

[00:19:42] Right.

[00:19:43] Yeah.

[00:19:44] So serving the mindsets allow us to serve more people but also really think through our

[00:19:49] intent also how do we want people to feel what state or what behavior are they trying

[00:19:55] to fulfill when they're walking into this door or when they are buying or browsing

[00:20:00] this online then let's make sure that creatively content wise product wise we're

[00:20:05] actually serving that mindset of course we have segmentation as well because

[00:20:09] we can't do media buys without segmentation etc.

[00:20:13] But it's not the start.

[00:20:15] It's a tactic.

[00:20:16] The creative brief probably start to the mindset versus the demo.

[00:20:19] 100%.

[00:20:20] Yeah.

[00:20:21] I mean it's very hard to inspire whether it's a product designer or a brand designer

[00:20:24] around like Peggy's 30s.

[00:20:26] Yeah many brands still try to do that.

[00:20:27] Oh majority.

[00:20:29] I don't see it and so that's why we moved away.

[00:20:31] Makes a lot of sense.

[00:20:32] In terms of channels and ways that you're getting these messages out what do you

[00:20:36] have your eye on in 2024 with all the changes we've seen in the media landscape.

[00:20:40] I mean you know it's interesting we're in the year old channel like that you know

[00:20:44] everybody's got a playing in the same channels of course social and social

[00:20:48] shopping is still there.

[00:20:49] Are you saying Tiktok emerges a shopping channel.

[00:20:52] Yeah Tiktok I mean we're still very big on Instagram or Meta we're still there.

[00:20:58] Are you selling direct.

[00:20:59] Yeah you are.

[00:21:00] Gotcha.

[00:21:01] Yeah so I mean we do have full sell partnerships of course but we do have a

[00:21:05] pretty big DTC arm so in those instances we sell direct.

[00:21:08] Which right now I think is it really gives brands a huge distinct advantage

[00:21:11] because you're collecting that first party data able to model your

[00:21:13] audience in some way the other companies who can't.

[00:21:16] Yeah I mean it also does require on the back end that we're able to track

[00:21:19] everything but yes.

[00:21:20] Yeah exactly which is a whole other thing.

[00:21:23] I actually think that we're getting back into a more of an analog space

[00:21:26] right now I think consumers want to feel things more and not just digital.

[00:21:31] And that fits very well with your business because you're all about

[00:21:34] experiences.

[00:21:35] Yeah it does it's also retail.

[00:21:37] But you guys are a really good retail experience footprint.

[00:21:41] Or experiences are getting better depending on the market.

[00:21:44] I mean if you're comparing with Apple it's one thing but if you're

[00:21:46] comparing with most of the apparel category putting luxury aside I think

[00:21:50] it delivers on what the consumer expects.

[00:21:52] Well sure I mean we definitely not on the innovation phase of

[00:21:55] retail right now which I think is the aspiration that we actually are

[00:21:58] more innovative in stores.

[00:22:00] It's hard though with the apparel margins have you guys ever thought

[00:22:03] about services or other areas tangential to get into the consumers.

[00:22:06] It's top of mind 100%.

[00:22:08] NorthFist could be a travel company it could be I mean.

[00:22:10] There's so much we can do.

[00:22:11] There's so much program.

[00:22:12] I mean right now what we do is we have partners.

[00:22:14] We have great partners that actually offer things like that and so

[00:22:16] we actually do give access to our members but it's not ours.

[00:22:20] Those are questions that we ask ourselves but we have fantastic

[00:22:23] partners.

[00:22:24] We also have a very big loyalty base.

[00:22:26] So we have the Explorer Pass which is a pretty sizable membership

[00:22:29] and through that people do get access.

[00:22:31] Like we take people on their first experience for the first ski

[00:22:33] experience or their first trail experience etc.

[00:22:36] So that's definitely something going into 2024 that we want to keep doing

[00:22:40] and then you know media is interesting.

[00:22:43] I think we're very big on content.

[00:22:45] We do a lot of longer form content not long form you know

[00:22:48] features but we do 30 40 minute films.

[00:22:51] Yeah a lot.

[00:22:51] I mean it's been a part of our DNA forever and it makes sense.

[00:22:54] I mean we have athletes that go places where if we don't have a

[00:22:57] camera there nobody will know they went.

[00:22:59] So we make a lot of films.

[00:23:00] We fund expeditions every year.

[00:23:02] We have some really big expeditions actually coming in 2024.

[00:23:05] Any that you get to go on?

[00:23:06] No I mean actually I had one opportunity but it was like literally

[00:23:10] next week or something and you know you're gone for like an

[00:23:12] ad to go to base camp of Everest and it's like I mean I want to

[00:23:16] go I'll do it one day but you know you're taking a month out

[00:23:19] of your life to do it which I can't.

[00:23:22] I'd love to but I can't but eventually eventually I'll do it.

[00:23:26] All that to say you know we're looking at content and

[00:23:30] looking at how distribution of content, looking at how we

[00:23:32] broadcast constant that's for me a big shift I want to make in 2024

[00:23:36] because right now we make a lot of films.

[00:23:38] They go to film festivals and it's great they win awards

[00:23:40] and then they go on YouTube which they just live on YouTube.

[00:23:43] So the question is how's it driving the business?

[00:23:45] How's it connecting with their consumers?

[00:23:47] And how do more people get to see it?

[00:23:49] That's top of mind also for me in 2024.

[00:23:51] It's interesting because what I think you're going to see

[00:23:53] in 2024 is that there's going to be a dearth of content

[00:23:56] because you had the right to strike people are going to find

[00:23:59] as less and less on TV and brands can step in and fund it

[00:24:03] and give consumers stuff to watch and engage.

[00:24:06] 100% and also it doesn't have to be brand content

[00:24:09] but it can be connected to the brand and that can be very interesting.

[00:24:14] No one wants to watch a 40 minute commercial.

[00:24:15] No but also nobody knows how to make a 40 minute commercial.

[00:24:18] Right exactly so I have a question for you this is sort of

[00:24:21] a little bit of a tangent but you know we've seen this year a lot of brands

[00:24:25] getting behind social issues.

[00:24:26] I didn't really start during the pandemic and back then every brand

[00:24:30] has some say on what was going on.

[00:24:32] Do you think brands have responsibility to take a really hard core stance

[00:24:36] in social issues or that's something you think they should step out of

[00:24:39] and just be a business?

[00:24:40] So one I do think brands need to be a bit more personal

[00:24:44] and therefore there are things we need to speak about

[00:24:46] but it has to be things you can authentically speak about.

[00:24:50] Right.

[00:24:51] So just coming out and saying I stand for this where either internally

[00:24:56] or like if you've never done anything about it don't do it.

[00:24:59] I think there's a fear that brands and I see it and we all have this fear of like oh

[00:25:04] this is happening in the world should I say something everybody else is saying

[00:25:07] something I should probably say something but if I don't say something people are gonna

[00:25:10] you have to go back to your what's true to your brand.

[00:25:13] Not what might be true to the head of marketing or the CEO but the brand.

[00:25:17] Oh everybody else is doing this I should probably say something you have to do

[00:25:21] what's right for your brand you have to go back to your values

[00:25:24] you have to go back to your mission statement you have to go back to your

[00:25:27] stance on things you have to go back to your internal behaviors

[00:25:30] but it's hard I mean it is a fine line

[00:25:33] council culture is real trolls are real.

[00:25:36] And we're in a highly polarized society.

[00:25:38] It's like I feel the amount of crisis that have emerged you know from a brand's

[00:25:44] standpoint like I used to never talk about crisis management.

[00:25:46] Yeah it's a big part of my job now.

[00:25:48] Just because somebody tweets something somebody says something there's

[00:25:52] There's concerted efforts also we see a lot of movements and groups

[00:25:56] that just go out and blast things.

[00:25:58] Target brands and go at them for whatever reason.

[00:26:01] Yeah right I mean you know Pride last year was an intense two three weeks for us

[00:26:05] that's just one of them.

[00:26:06] And these decisions that you need to make a CMO people are looking at you for the answer.

[00:26:11] Yeah I mean the good thing is you know yes it's me but it's also you know of course

[00:26:14] we have a fantastic brand president I'll work back with the president of the north face

[00:26:18] depending on how big it gets the board gets involved and the CEO we have a the CEO of EF

[00:26:23] it depends on the scale the magnitude but it yes very often it starts with like the team

[00:26:28] looking at it is like okay can we handle it or not then they'll bring it to me

[00:26:31] and then we'll make the call and then if I need to elevate it I will.

[00:26:34] That's something they don't teach you in CMO school and not like there is CMO school.

[00:26:37] No you just kind of learn on the spot and there's crisis and crisis I mean we've had

[00:26:42] athletes who have accidents that's a very big crisis for us and then there's you know

[00:26:48] why I mentioned Pride or somebody said something every single case is different

[00:26:53] there's almost no single blueprint that you can really apply you always have a different situation.

[00:26:57] So wrapping up here Sophie I mean you've had a really fun career being an Ikea now

[00:27:02] this new role at north face when you look back at your career what are some of the things that you

[00:27:06] think you did right to set you up for being in a position where you can actually choose and do

[00:27:10] the things that you want to do I mean you said Nike was great but you wanted to try digital and

[00:27:15] then there were things that you love about north face and it's a luxury to be able to choose

[00:27:18] where you want to go at such a high level you know in the corporate world what do you think

[00:27:23] that you did right that enabled you to have that type of freedom of flexibility and choice

[00:27:27] I don't think it's because I did it right but I do think I was lucky enough to have great

[00:27:30] mentors I do think mentors are very important and you should seek them out too many people I think

[00:27:35] think that they can do it on their own or I'm gonna sound old but I see this generation now

[00:27:39] who just like they don't want to hear they don't want to listen they don't want to learn from

[00:27:43] anyone and it's just you can't do that. They want to watch a YouTube video and figure it out on their own.

[00:27:46] Right. Like there are people who actually have fantastic experience and you should probably

[00:27:50] listen to them even if you don't like what they have to say. Or whatever you don't accept

[00:27:53] their advice at least hear it. Absolutely absolutely so mentorship I think has been

[00:27:58] huge for me and then I think like I have a lot of ego so I put a lot of value in who I am and

[00:28:06] how I feel and so sometimes if it doesn't feel right I definitely follow my guts.

[00:28:12] Takes confidence to do that though. Yeah it's a little bit of my personality as well but

[00:28:17] I mean you know leaving Nike was a big deal financially is a big deal. Of course.

[00:28:21] Keeping a place like Nike but that's how I felt and so sometimes you just go with

[00:28:26] your guts and you know when they left Everlane I didn't have a job I didn't have the

[00:28:29] North Face lined up. I left and I was like I'll figure it out easier to do at this stage of

[00:28:34] my career obviously but yeah I'm confident. I mean I have emboster syndrome at times for sure

[00:28:40] I don't understand why people want to hear me necessarily but in terms of my career and the

[00:28:44] things I can control I'm much more attuned to what I think I need in order to be happy

[00:28:49] or in order to just keep on growing but growth ultimately growth is very important

[00:28:55] the idea of being content and just stagnating is like that scares me gotta keep on moving.

[00:29:02] Yeah and that's what drives you. Is there a mantra that you have to live by or something that comes

[00:29:05] to mind? I mean I have one but it's more to help me mentally. It's like every day because I have

[00:29:11] a hard time getting up and so my dad growing up would always say the day belongs to those who

[00:29:16] wake up early. It matters how you define early right? Exactly but figuratively and exactly

[00:29:21] and literally so I think about that a lot because early adoption is being early right?

[00:29:25] I think about that a lot mostly now with the metaverse and all that I'm like oh I see those

[00:29:30] opportunities and we're not going after it but that's early. Yeah AI everything is happening

[00:29:34] right now. Yeah he used to say that to wake me up that's kind of like what's the start but

[00:29:38] I've kind of taken in to actually mean many other things you know you want to be first to

[00:29:42] the warm right? Well thanks for sharing that thanks for joining today it was a great conversation

[00:29:46] I don't really appreciate it and I can't wait for our audience to hear it so on behalf

[00:29:49] of Suzy and I we team thanks again to Sophie Bambook chief marketing officer at the North

[00:29:53] Face for joining us today be sure to subscribe right and review the Speed of Culture podcast

[00:29:56] on your favorite podcast platform. So next time season one take care. The Speed of Culture is

[00:30:03] brought to you by Suzy as part of the AdWeek podcast network and Agust creator network.

[00:30:08] You can listen subscribe to all AdWeeks podcast by visiting adweek.com slash podcast. To find

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