Building a Brand Men Trust with Every Man Jack CEO Gerry Chesser

[00:00:02] The ethos and the purpose and the vision of Every Man Jack is to inspire men to take care of themselves and connect to the world around them.

[00:00:10] So we use things like social platforms and our ambassador program to do just that, to inspire men.

[00:00:17] And it's not about having necessarily a celebrity or somebody who's an a-lister.

[00:00:22] It's about a lifestyle they can relate to.

[00:00:25] To thrive in a rapidly evolving landscape, Brands must move in an ever increasing pace.

[00:00:30] I'm Matt Britain, founder and CEO of Suzy.

[00:00:33] Join me and key industry leaders as we dive deep into the shifting consumer trends within their industry.

[00:00:38] Why it matters now and how you can keep up?

[00:00:41] Welcome to The Speed of Culture.

[00:00:47] The name of the world is going to be joined by Gerry Chesser CEO and Every Man Jack, a men's hair and skin care brand that strives users many natural and plant based ingredients as possible.

[00:00:57] Gerry, so great to see you. Thanks so much for joining today.

[00:01:00] Thanks Matt, thrilled to be here.

[00:01:01] Absolutely. So tell us a little bit about your background.

[00:01:04] Obviously, the CEO role is one that takes on a lot of different facets and would love to hear somebody experience that led up to your current role.

[00:01:11] Sure. I've actually been in CPG for 30 years.

[00:01:14] The first 10 was at Big CPG and various operating and manufacturing roles.

[00:01:20] And the last 20 entrepreneurs kind of more challenge your brands mostly in the health of wellness space, everything from operations to finance,

[00:01:28] a general brand to general management and eventually COO and CEO.

[00:01:33] And how did you find yourself ending up in the CPG space early in your career?

[00:01:38] It's interesting. I was going to go to law school out of college.

[00:01:41] Me too.

[00:01:43] It's what back then we thought that you had to do to be successful, right? That was what mom and dad told us.

[00:01:47] I had to do it. Yeah, exactly.

[00:01:49] And I loved actually the work around the law and the reading and the text.

[00:01:54] But when I started talking to lawyers and I realized they didn't seem like a lot of them are very happy.

[00:01:59] And so I just talked to my parents. My dad was like, you know, you're great with people heavy thought about getting an manufacturing which is what he was in.

[00:02:07] And in manufacturing about people it's about organizing teams against a goal, motivating them and achieving that.

[00:02:13] So to me, that's how I got into consumer products kind of stumbled into it ended up 30 years later and here I am.

[00:02:19] And among the many facets of the consumer products business has there been one area that you can gravitate more towards whether it's in the marketing or product development realm or innovation.

[00:02:30] I'm more on the product side of it. I enjoy both in terms of developing products commercializing them.

[00:02:36] What is it about that experience that the consumer is going to have with the product?

[00:02:40] And obviously all the operational and financial aspects of it, I really enjoy.

[00:02:44] But seeing that come to life has always been exciting for me. I mean, to me it's about tangible products when you can go somewhere and see your product on the shelf.

[00:02:52] You really feel like you're making some sort of impact there and it's so tangible.

[00:02:56] It's so interesting seeing saying you can touch and feel like we have a software company.

[00:02:59] It's easy. You can't touch it.

[00:03:00] The closest thing we have is like billboards on the side of the highway, but when people see it, there's something about people seeing things you built,

[00:03:06] whether it's a billboard or obviously the actual product that has some type of gravitas towards it and it makes people sort of respect and even greater detail.

[00:03:14] What you've accomplished.

[00:03:16] Yeah, absolutely. Get a kick out of it when you're able to go into retail store in my son will pick up one of my products.

[00:03:22] You'd be like, Dad, did you make this?

[00:03:25] So that's fun.

[00:03:26] Absolutely. So tell us about your current role at every man Jack and tell us a little bit about the company and where your vision is moving forward.

[00:03:33] Sure. So I am a CEO. I joined just over three years ago and I was really brought to scale the company and take it from what it was,

[00:03:42] which ironically it's been around for 17 years and the thing that was really interesting about every man Jack is,

[00:03:48] it's been around for 17 years with a very simple proposition, which was better for you, personal care from men at a great price,

[00:03:56] aesthetics and packaging that really I think delivered on equities for consumers.

[00:04:01] Well, it was very early in its life cycle and I think it's a little bit too far in front of the curve.

[00:04:05] So what has happened over the last 17 years, it's most of the growth has happened in the last four or five.

[00:04:11] And the reason for that, Matt is really about the consumer.

[00:04:15] So that consumer is a young man who is engaged in better for you products,

[00:04:20] engaged in the lifestyle temper brand that we have, outdoor inspired better for you and they really gravitate towards that.

[00:04:26] So although that's a brand that kind of existed really in three years ago in the natural channel,

[00:04:31] what we see is that mass consumer now really driven by Gen Z and Gen Y that are hyper engaged in better for you brands.

[00:04:38] They're looking at the back of the label, and every man Jack has always been that.

[00:04:42] And now it's set of mass scale and it's got that engagement for the consumer,

[00:04:46] and that's what's driving all of these challenge your brands in the men's space.

[00:04:50] Yeah, it's almost like the market is catching up with where the product has always been.

[00:04:54] Yeah, 100%.

[00:04:55] So when you look at distribution and driving volume of your product, you mentioned your son's senior product in a store.

[00:05:02] How do you look at the future of retail and some of the levers that you're pulling to make sure that you're continuing to be in front of the consumer

[00:05:08] or they're making obviously the buying decisions and you're able to compete in a world of private label and obviously competing with a lot of more traditional established RPG brands?

[00:05:17] Well I think you have to be everywhere where the consumer is.

[00:05:20] And so we are not a true omnichannel brand because consumer start their journeys in different places.

[00:05:26] I think historically if you go back a couple of decades ago and when I was starting my career,

[00:05:31] you started your consumer journey in a retail brick and mortar.

[00:05:34] Now you started searching a lot of sorts starts on platforms like Amazon where they may be researching a product and they're engaging with it.

[00:05:41] They might be comfortable at a certain e-tailor site.

[00:05:43] They might like to engage directly with a brand.

[00:05:46] So we have to be everywhere and I think that's what we've really thrived in as the ability to kind of present our product everywhere and get that message consistent everywhere.

[00:05:55] At shelf or at our D to C site, at any different platform or existing, we're consistent and bringing that better for you.

[00:06:06] And I think that's a really important part of our brand.

[00:06:11] You can see from our labels, see how we present ourselves on shelf, on the digital screen so that consistency, I think, of all platforms but also just being available everywhere is super important in that consumer journey.

[00:06:23] Absolutely and in that regard, I saw you posted a couple of months ago that your product is now on display and over 700 target stores in their men's world displays.

[00:06:32] So what goes through our process like that? I guess I'm working with such a prominent retailer and getting your product featured like that.

[00:06:40] I mean, the process is you have to in granted the brand started at Target years ago.

[00:06:44] So we've always had that kind of direct engagement. And that's the case with quite a few retailers now.

[00:06:49] But how that starts is really sharing the vision for the brand.

[00:06:52] When you talk to a retailer and like Target and you're talking them about where this consumer is going this general agency consumer,

[00:06:58] the way they're engaging with a brand, the way that they're getting more into regimens than they ever had before.

[00:07:03] This generation is so engaged in different parts of personal care now.

[00:07:07] If I go back to like homogenics or we used bar so we do.

[00:07:11] Or we use probably maybe use what your mom had in the shower, what your girlfriend or wife had in the shower.

[00:07:17] We just didn't even think about it, right?

[00:07:19] Didn't think about it. And these young men now are engaged in regimens.

[00:07:22] So I think what really resonates for us in men's world is the young consumer can go into that target store.

[00:07:28] They can go into men's world and they engage in multiple categories and we play across these five categories.

[00:07:34] And they can gauge when the brand they're and also the way young men and men think in general is they like to go one place and see it.

[00:07:41] And they're not necessarily like women where they may be in the beauty category,

[00:07:45] shopping aisle or shopping features and benefits, men are going right to what they need if they like the brand

[00:07:50] or if they're in that need state that they're shopping, they're going right to it.

[00:07:54] So it serves us well in the sense of the full portfolio, the full regimen and one place that makes it easy for them to engage.

[00:08:00] Yeah, it's interesting. It is much more function oriented and it's more of a task versus activity.

[00:08:06] So this peak in terms of shopping.

[00:08:08] So you know what you want to get and you want to get home, etc.

[00:08:11] So in terms of building the brand, obviously the target you're speaking of is hard to reach.

[00:08:15] And they're being bombarded with messages within your category and out.

[00:08:19] What have you found to be some of the more effective tactics at building your brand and ultimately driving volume for marketing standpoint?

[00:08:26] Part of the ethos of every man Jack is the better for you to outdoor lifestyle and how to inspire is part of who we are.

[00:08:33] So we have an ambassador team that's very engaged, whether it's professional surfers, skiers and they have great audiences and they're engaging at the level where they're sharing their lifestyles and men like to see that it's inspirational.

[00:08:44] The ethos and the purpose and the vision of every man Jack is to inspire men to take care of themselves and connect to the world around them.

[00:08:53] So we use things like social platforms and our ambassador program to do just that, to inspire men.

[00:09:00] And it's not about having necessarily a celebrity or somebody who's an a-lister.

[00:09:04] It's about a lifestyle they can relate to.

[00:09:07] We have a tritone that we sponsor and that tritone has a host of people that are engaged. They're not full time only triathletes.

[00:09:13] They're dads, they're engaged in their community. But they can share their experiences. They relate to every man Jack and they can share that with us.

[00:09:21] So we utilize that I think very well. But I think that lifestyle is really what appeals to young men and we have to continue to engage them in it.

[00:09:28] So kind of moving down the funnel so to speak, Jai, we obviously talked about brand building and making sure you're in a consideration set.

[00:09:34] Obviously one unique thing about CPG, especially when you were looking at channels like Target and Walmart is you don't have that first party data.

[00:09:42] So to speak, you don't have the ability to drive that loyalty and refugee purchase. You almost have to rely a lot on the product to do that.

[00:09:48] Have to do lifting for you. How do you look at loyalty and making sure that you don't just have a one time customer but you're building those critical lifetime relationships?

[00:09:56] I'd be a part of it is math through our DSE site. So it's not primarily commerce is primarily content and education, but we also try to develop a community there.

[00:10:07] So in that community we have a large CRM program and we engage at CRM program and things. So we don't just have them as consumers.

[00:10:15] We communicate with them. We ask them about product ideas. We use them in some cases to send them product ideas to get their feedback on it.

[00:10:23] So that's one area where we're connecting the young man to understanding what are the features, the benefits, the attributes that they like about our products and that gives us a good sounding bar.

[00:10:31] The other part of it is if you look at our social channels or are we doing all the right listening?

[00:10:35] So what are the consumers telling us what feedback are they going to giving us that we can then riff off of?

[00:10:40] Whether it's doing more of what they're liking or is it more that we're listening to them about product ideas or even some of the tactics we use?

[00:10:47] So that's definitely a piece of it. And the other is we have to be a part I talked about being where they are consumer is.

[00:10:54] But look at something like we're one of the fastest growing men's brands on TikTok. Well, we're there because that's where our audiences.

[00:11:01] So engaging with them and we have a team that focuses on that. We're seeing what's happening in the culture. What are young men caring about?

[00:11:08] What are they posting about? What are they watching? And we put content out there and we see how it's received as well.

[00:11:13] So I think there's a lot of things we get from just listening and understanding what's happening in our consumers and then reacting to it.

[00:11:20] Whether it's at a product level in terms of how we communicate with them.

[00:11:23] So I mean, becoming one of the fastest growing men's brands on TikTok, you mentioned that it was like matter of fact, but it's a major technical.

[00:11:29] And I'm sure it wasn't easy to get there. What was the process to engage in a new channel like that where the consumers so fickle and you really have to enter into the realm on the consumers terms versus yours on like TV.

[00:11:41] So we just run a spot and how did you I guess get your team to be homes so successful in that platform?

[00:11:47] Part of it is test to learn that. We had to go in and see what content was being consumed and how is it being consumed.

[00:11:53] It is very interesting how these different platforms work because you could take something on another platform that is very successful in a maybe too long or it may not be that interesting.

[00:12:02] So that's one thing we learned. The other is like what resonates on the channel? Once you kind of work through what it is, you feel like the flow of the content is that's most appealing.

[00:12:12] Part of it is, well, how are you delivering that content? Well, we found is with young guys particularly humor matters.

[00:12:19] So you have to have a reason for them to be entertained. I think when you look at the beauty category which we always look at in terms of trends and how consumers and when consumers think about things that any trends that we could translate.

[00:12:30] When you look at that from a social media standpoint, it's very different. Women engage in things much more about education. Guys are they want to be entertained and then if you can give them information about your product while you're being entertaining. That is hopefully what really works and what we've seen work for us anyways.

[00:12:47] We'll be right back with the speed of culture after a few words from our sponsor.

[00:13:02] With their craft-formal, besides themselves, the hard-neck-scent-flick for a deep range of things.

[00:13:09] A simple thing that's in the dream and the rest is that you do a machine while you always have your best skills.

[00:13:15] Try the best disks from Pesier, also have a choice from the kids.

[00:13:24] So moving forward when you look at the future growth of the business, obviously you have to continue the innovative, you have to continue to look at the consumer that drives your roadmap.

[00:13:33] What does innovation look like for your company? What does the innovation cycle look like? And what are some of the new, I guess, tangential categories that you guys are already involved in or think could be an interesting area in the future?

[00:13:46] Well, it's interesting, men are just in general expanding their regiments and so they're much more interested in much more engaging categories than they ever have been.

[00:13:53] So the number of products they're using, the number of subcategories that they're engaging is well beyond what it's been.

[00:14:01] If you look at something like skincare, we've seen guys go from putting nothing under their face and maybe using a bar so to now they're thinking much more thoughtfully about that.

[00:14:10] They're looking at things like cleansing and hydrating. Are they going to be five and seven steps of beauty? No. The cleansing and hydrating is a trend that we're seeing, the young men particular adopting,

[00:14:20] and we see that kind of continuing to be relevant in skincare and growing segment. I think fragrance always plays a big role with men, it is one of the biggest entries into the category.

[00:14:31] It's how they make their purchase decisions. So we're going to continue to innovate on fragrances and try to stay relevant there.

[00:14:37] If you look at forms and shapes, that's another one across body and the other end, specifically you've seen now, you've seen a lot of innovations and things like whole body, deodorant.

[00:14:46] So we're looking at all that and actually a pretty relevant in terms of delivering and pipeline against that, but we're staying true to the five categories we play in that.

[00:14:55] But what we're trying to do is innovate within those five both on the fragrance side as well as on the form side and we'll continue to do that.

[00:15:01] We're careful about not going to adjacent with our categories where then you're deluding some of your messages and your equities. So we're focused on the five and then innovating behind that core.

[00:15:11] And do tastes from your audience in terms of fragrance not taste, but like their preferences. I should say in terms of types of smell that gravitate towards.

[00:15:20] Do you see just like shifts happening in the industry over time is there any rhyme or reason behind it?

[00:15:26] There is mad and I think that's what's been a really interesting innovation because we've started with men taking very simple fragrances might have just really been like Woody type of fragrances.

[00:15:36] And what we're seeing is men looking particularly young men again because that's the growing audience. They're looking more in sophistication.

[00:15:43] Not necessarily gender neutral fragrances but more sophisticated fragrances.

[00:15:49] Fragances that are more descriptive than men can look at that and say, oh I can relate to that that sounds interesting. They weren't doing that 10 years ago.

[00:15:56] And so I think that's what that landscape has changed is the proliferation of fragrances and they're more sophisticated. They're telling a story there. I've had I think men think are interesting and that's going to be dynamic.

[00:16:08] Yeah, I mean a lot of what we're talking about is we talked about what we cared about as gen Xs and when you look at the Gen Z consumer.

[00:16:15] They just have had so much more of a complicated upbringing and you know, you look at Gen Z having to go through COVID but obviously seeing looks political divide and the US specifically.

[00:16:26] And obviously most importantly or most impactfully the impact of their phone being appended to their body and the social media stresses and pressures are coming along with it.

[00:16:34] I would imagine that that type of sophisticated upbringing is a big driver of a more sophisticated preference set for the consumer.

[00:16:43] It absolutely is and I think that's what's been unique to the men's category over the last few years in how it's developed is that you have a young audience that cares what's in the bottle.

[00:16:54] And so that's where you've seen the growth of better for you brands like every man Jack, they're looking at the back of the bottle they're looking in the ingredients.

[00:17:00] Do they see any authenticity in this company? What is this company stand for? We certified it as a B-Corp last year and we did that because we found that it's very important to our consumer in terms of a validation of your products, your practices and your policies.

[00:17:16] So it's not just about what's in the bottle, which is important and you better show up with real authenticity there. You better have a purpose and a reason for the ingredients you use and people better believe that those are better for you.

[00:17:30] And then in terms of who that company is they're shopping for the front of that label, who is this company? What are they stand for? What are they about?

[00:17:37] And so for us it be Cork was really a validation of our people, our practices and our products and a lot of work went into document the things that we were doing.

[00:17:47] It was a good validation but it means something to these young consumers that they're getting something besides the product off the shelf. They're participating in the economy, they're participating in this company's success because they like what you're doing.

[00:17:59] Yeah it brings your story to life and a real way and your brand. So let's shift gears a little bit, Jared, just to you and your role as CEO of a consumer products company.

[00:18:10] How would you describe the pie chart of your day? Because when you're talking about things like fragrances, my mind goes to like is he smelling the fragrances himself like how involved are you in that some people might say yes or no but I'm just curious in terms of how you spend your day where you prioritize your time in order to achieve your business goals.

[00:18:27] And they occasionally will ask me about a fragrance and I'll give them my opinion but I'll always say I'm not the audience.

[00:18:34] I'm very good we have a great process of engaging.

[00:18:36] You're every man, Jerry you're just throwing in at what your one person's opinion right exactly the older man's persons opinion.

[00:18:42] So in terms of my day, so one of the things that's been really important to our success and my success and other companies before this is really running a disciplined company in terms of you have the how of how are you going to do things but you have the what of what you're trying to achieve.

[00:18:58] The what for us is our purpose of every man jack. So every year we have an operating plan that we put together which is identifying all of the key objectives and then how we're defining key results against that.

[00:19:11] And we run the business according to those okay ours so that defines the what the how is our values in terms of how we're going to achieve that.

[00:19:20] But I run the company effectively through an okay our system.

[00:19:25] Every two weeks we have a leadership team meeting and we use that one page document of our okay ours of how we're proceeding in the year, how we're performing against it if there's anything we're not hitting metrics.

[00:19:35] What's the action plan to get a back on track. So for me that structure has always been important.

[00:19:40] The departments are set up to basically execute against those okay ours and effectively every person has okay ours down to their personal level throughout the company.

[00:19:51] And those all roll up to the company okay ours. So I think that's important.

[00:19:55] The one thing I'd say being a part of growing entrepreneurial thriving companies is you have more opportunities than you can take advantage of.

[00:20:04] And so you have to be very selective of what you're going to work on or what you're not and I think the ability to say no sometimes as much more powerful than what you say yes to.

[00:20:13] And we spend a lot of time on that cycling through our priorities and saying what aligns to the objectives we said it doesn't mean you ignore any new information coming in that are opportunities.

[00:20:24] But you put it through the same rigorous cycle and you determine is that going to change our current priorities to assist actually fill a gap that we're going to save this is more important than something else.

[00:20:34] Yeah, I mean that's a definition of opportunity cost isn't it you could chase everything and then you're not doing the core things you do well anymore.

[00:20:40] And you find yourself largely deluded so it is having a framework for decision making and I guess that's where it all goes back to the OKRs and having structure which is essentially a decision making framework and a prioritization framework to achieve what's most important role in the goals of the company.

[00:20:56] Absolutely, and we revisit that will midyear do assessment of where OKRs are we always make some minor adjustments.

[00:21:02] I think but we're always really clear on one thing is we try to maintain strategically we try to be strategically rigid but tactically we're flexible because the year changes the way it unfolds will change.

[00:21:14] But nothing changes in terms of what we're generally trying to accomplish to advance our mission about how we serve the C. on that.

[00:21:21] So one thing you mentioned a lot during his interview is just and strikes me that you really focus a lot on the consumer and how the consumers changing and making sure that you're not getting blindsided by.

[00:21:31] And we're building for a gen X audience when you're going after Gen Z and a lot of companies do that and they're myopic and they're thinking and they make decisions based on what's in their four walls and then sooner or later they just become disenfranchised from their audience.

[00:21:44] How have you been able to successfully over time make sure that you're evolving as a professional that you understand emerging channels like Tik Tok and emerging trends that Gen Z brings with it to make sure that you are leading for the audience that you serve.

[00:21:57] I think there is that to be asking questions and we spend a lot of time on that internally asking questions.

[00:22:04] We learned about Tik Tok a few years ago getting into it and I think you have to be humble enough to know what you don't know and ask the dumb questions and then do some tests and learns and work your way in there but I think that's a big part of it is just like.

[00:22:18] Stay curious and I think we do a good job of that internally ask a lot of questions ask a lot of questions of our partners in terms of what we're trying to achieve and then align on those objectives and tests and learn.

[00:22:28] But it's been pretty successful for us.

[00:22:30] I do think though that you have to remain open to ideas.

[00:22:33] I don't think you set it and forget it with your operating plan when you're objectives and I think new information comes in you always have to be listening.

[00:22:41] We try to do that in innovation plan in terms of how we look at launching new products whether it's will run some focus groups with our audience will put that same information out to our CRM group.

[00:22:52] We'll go out to our big customers and top-to-top meetings and ask them what they see as trans and share what we see and try to have this open and transparent as a dialogue is possible and we learn a lot and that informs what we do.

[00:23:05] And when you look at sort of the session you've had in your career and obviously you're in a position where it's fun your mid-size kind of company me like you're not really stage start up you have real distribution but you're also not a proctor and gamble where you have layers and layers and layers so you can very much dictate the future of the company.

[00:23:23] And obviously the be successful in a role like that takes the right level of focus earlier in your career so when you look back at your journey I guess prior to joining this role what are some of the things that you've done right whether it be decisions you've made or as you focused on.

[00:23:37] But you think have kind of created the person that you are today in the lead of your today to put yourself in the position is exceed.

[00:23:43] Yeah I mean I guess goes back Matt's means is asking a lot of questions so coming up with my career I was never afraid to ask questions or raise my hand to spend that extra time to learn about something and then learn about adjacent functions and the big part of that for me has always been having a mentor.

[00:23:59] I chose mentors early in my career and almost describe it as being selfish with their time to try to learn as much as I could.

[00:24:07] And I spent a lot of time and so we have a mentorship program that we establish here at every manjac so everyone has the ability to have a mentor of someone more senior than them.

[00:24:16] And the construct is that they can share whatever they want to share that's not a direct manager and really is to help them think through what they need to improve on with their skill sets.

[00:24:27] What areas that they may be interested in how they can get styles of leadership and coming up through my career that's what I did I was very fortunate to have great mentors.

[00:24:36] And so now at the point of my career what I feel like I kind of need to do to give back is I'm pretty liberal with my time and to all set up time with people if you ever want to have coffee I'll sit down with you and share my thoughts on things that there's things that you want to bounce off of me.

[00:24:52] It was pivotal in my career that I always had great mentors and always took advantage of it.

[00:24:57] I don't know if I would be here today without being able to do that.

[00:25:00] Yeah, I think it's definitely something that I think you're point about being selfish with their time is such a good one.

[00:25:06] I think sometimes we get in their own way especially younger and our careers thing oh they won't want to talk to me they're too busy and you really don't get what you don't ask for.

[00:25:15] And when you put yourself first and you reach out just trust that the person doesn't have time they'll let you know but assume that they do don't assume that they don't.

[00:25:23] Yeah absolutely.

[00:25:24] And you'll find that most people want to share their experiences they want to give you advice and it's a big part of what we do and it's something I think particularly I think in consumer products been in this industry for a long time.

[00:25:37] And whether I go to a trade show or you see somebody out at a customer meeting people are very willing to just have conversations and learn and share their experiences and I think people need to take advantage of it you know and I think that's been the unfortunate thing is something like the remote work is.

[00:25:53] You're losing all that face to face with people and interfacing and having the ability to just absorb things from people that I think is pretty valuable.

[00:26:02] Yep I think about that all the time.

[00:26:04] So this has been great just to wrap up your Gerry is there a quote or mantra that you live by like to wrap up our podcast with that consistent question.

[00:26:11] I would say never sacrifice the good for the perfect and I've been a part of fast growing companies for a lot of years and your ability to take what you know looks like it might work and test it and move.

[00:26:26] And if you're looking for perfection or if you're looking to get every answer, you're probably not going to get where you want to go and for me that's been a big mantra.

[00:26:34] Yeah absolutely I mean I think so many companies just persevering and spin cycles while the whole market's passing them and I think always shipping and pushing things out of netherrainings definitely the way to go especially here in 2024.

[00:26:46] The speed of culture man you know what we're going to wrap it up with that thanks so much Gerry has been awesome hearing about your background and your current work and I have no doubt you need to be successful with everything you're doing.

[00:26:58] Great I appreciate it.

[00:26:59] Thank you on behalf of Susan to add we team thanks again to Gerry Chessor CEO of every man Jack for joining us today be sure to subscribe right in review to speed of culture podcasts on your favorite podcast platform.

[00:27:09] Until next time see you soon everyone take care.

[00:27:16] The speed of culture is brought to you by Susan as part of the ad week podcast network and a guest creator network.

[00:27:21] You can listen subscribe to all ad weeks podcast by visiting adweek.com slash podcast.

[00:27:27] Find out more about Susie head to Susie dot com and make sure to search for the speed of culture apple podcasts Spotify and Google podcast or anywhere else podcast or found click the follow so you don't miss out on any future episodes on behalf of the team here at Susie thanks for listening.