Punching Through Challenges: Rumble Boxing Co-Founder Noah Neiman’s Journey to Success

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[00:00:46] Wenn wir auf die

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[00:01:14] To thrive in a rapidly evolving landscape, brands must move at an ever-increasing pace.

[00:01:19] I'm Matt Britton, founder and CEO of Suzy. Join me and key industry leaders as we dive deep into

[00:01:24] the shifting consumer trends within their industry, why it matters now, and how you can keep up.

[00:01:29] Welcome to the Speed of Culture. Today, we're thrilled to welcome Noah Neiman,

[00:01:38] co-founder and creator of Rumble Boxing and CEO of Fight Style Consulting. Noah has revolutionized

[00:01:44] the fitness industry, was innovative, boxing-inspired group fitness classes,

[00:01:47] has expanded Rumble into a global brand. Noah, so great to see you, man.

[00:01:51] Thank you for having me. I need that entrance. It's like a Game of Thrones entrance. Every time

[00:01:55] I walk into a room, I wish you would announce me.

[00:01:57] Bring me everywhere and I'll just announce you. It'll be like when they announced Michael Jordan

[00:02:01] in 1989 with the Bulls, right?

[00:02:03] Okay, well, it's not blaspheme, first off, to kick off the interviews. But I already like your energy

[00:02:08] because sometimes when I do these pods, they're like, the host, I'm like, how did you get a

[00:02:12] microphone? Your energy, like, do you even want to be here? So I feel like our energies are matching

[00:02:17] right now, which is great because mine's a medical diagnosis. Mine is from ADHD, but yours seems to be

[00:02:22] more natural.

[00:02:22] Me too. That's one thing we have in common. I'm sure we'll uncover many more things and this

[00:02:27] conversation unfolds.

[00:02:28] Well, thank you for having me. I appreciate it.

[00:02:30] Absolutely. So tell me about your background. You're an entrepreneur and I love interviewing

[00:02:34] entrepreneurs in the podcast because it's completely unscripted. You don't have a PR team behind you

[00:02:39] telling you what to say. You are who you are. And that's exciting to me. When did you first become

[00:02:44] an entrepreneur and how did you end up in the seat you're in today?

[00:02:47] Well, I don't even think that there was like a definitive moment where it happened. I mean,

[00:02:53] I always give the analogy. Have you ever seen the movie Slumdog Millionaire?

[00:02:57] Yeah, of course.

[00:02:58] So everything in my life, all the missteps, especially all the dark moments actually led me to this kind of

[00:03:06] wild path that leads me to be sitting here right now. So I'll give you the brief version of it

[00:03:11] because I know you only said we have 25 minutes.

[00:03:13] Yeah. And I want to hear about some of the dark moments too, if you're willing to share.

[00:03:15] I'm an open book because guys don't go to therapy. We go on podcasts and we talk about our traumas.

[00:03:20] So that's fine. I'm down to share because again, my entrepreneurial, I guess, journey was kind of

[00:03:25] by happenstance, to be honest. I never planned it. And if I did plan it, I probably wouldn't have

[00:03:30] succeeded because I wouldn't have been able to capitalize on these moments as I did. So I grew up in

[00:03:35] Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania diagnosed with ADHD and anxiety, depression at a young age. And I was

[00:03:41] overweight as a kid. I was one of those kids, like t-shirt on in the pool. And I just always had a lot

[00:03:46] of emotional problems. So I got put on medicine. I had to go to these therapy sessions and they never

[00:03:52] worked for me. I just had this boundless energy and I found, luckily, I'm going to date myself now.

[00:03:59] You might know this.

[00:04:00] You saying I'm old, Noah?

[00:04:02] I knew we're getting up there, but listen, this is why we take care of ourselves because age is a

[00:04:06] relative thing. So I would get me a mail, these AOL, 50 free hours of internet CDs. And my parents

[00:04:13] wouldn't let me on the internet. And so I would download, I would make a fake accounts and I'd get

[00:04:17] on the internet and I happened to find like bodybuilding.com or something. It was just like

[00:04:21] rudimentary website back in the, I guess the nineties that had all these bodybuilding tips

[00:04:27] and kind of fitness tips. And so for some reason, I started to just dive into this world, not

[00:04:33] professionally, obviously I was a kid. And I found out rather quickly that the more I took care of my

[00:04:39] physical body, the more my behavioral problems, the more my emotional problems, the more my

[00:04:45] spiritual problems seem to be easier to control. They didn't go away, but I was just able to focus

[00:04:50] them. So fast forward through a ton of just, I mean, I got my degree in accounting. My first job

[00:04:57] was at J.H. Cohen, a midsize accounting firm in Midtown Manhattan. And now to be sitting here talking

[00:05:02] to you about starting one of the arguably the most impactful boutique fitness concepts of modern time

[00:05:08] with its expansion and its impact on communities. That's a crazy journey. So again, it was just

[00:05:15] everything that I learned about fitness and martial arts, which I took up at a young age, boxing and

[00:05:20] strength training and jujitsu and football. All of these principles I applied to my personal life

[00:05:26] and my professional life. And it's taken me to where I am right now.

[00:05:30] So you're working in an accounting firm probably in your early twenties. And you talk about you

[00:05:36] always were an entrepreneur, but you weren't an entrepreneur when you're sitting in the seat

[00:05:39] at an accounting firm. So what happened?

[00:05:42] Well, listen, I kind of was an entrepreneur, a lot of entrepreneurs and the statute of limitations

[00:05:45] is up and I'm very open about this part of my life. I used to deal a little bit of weed and I

[00:05:49] used to sell some, I know a few entrepreneurs. I won't name them, but big fortune five.

[00:05:53] Every entrepreneur I know that's very successful either was a nightclub promoter,

[00:05:58] Dell weed, or was a bookie. One of the three.

[00:06:00] Well, guess what? I'm two out of those three.

[00:06:03] All right. I was just a nightclub promoter. That's it.

[00:06:04] That's why we get along. So my business partner, Eugene Ram, who founded 10 June,

[00:06:09] one of them.

[00:06:09] I celebrate my 30th birthday in 10 June, long time ago, back in the day.

[00:06:14] The universe is aligning. I don't know what I believe in right now,

[00:06:17] but I believe in some kind of serendipity and there's a reason we're talking right now.

[00:06:20] So I used to work. So after my accounting job, well, in college, let's, I sold a little bit

[00:06:26] to afford the things that I wanted to. Hey man, now it's legalized, right?

[00:06:30] Yeah. Well, this was a long time ago, FBI and all the cops all along. I think it's 15 years. It

[00:06:35] was like 20 years ago. You can't get me. And we're, this is all satire.

[00:06:39] Exactly. Creative liberties.

[00:06:41] So I used to run to the bathroom, like any good Jewish boy. I would call my mom in the middle of

[00:06:47] this accounting profession and job. And I'm like, I have to be destined for more than this. Like I

[00:06:52] would be crying literally in the stall. And the funny thing was, is I was actually pretty good at

[00:06:57] my job because I was kind of as accountants go, I was kind of outgoing and I kind of had a different

[00:07:02] personality and a unique flair. Like I had my tattoos and I was, I had my little thing. So I would always

[00:07:08] get books from clients because they wanted to hang out. They wanted me to audit their businesses.

[00:07:13] So my bosses, even though I was kind of checked out at the job, they would always,

[00:07:17] they would give me a raise. I would go in to quit and it'd be like, all right, how's an extra $5,000?

[00:07:22] And then there was this one pivotal moment where my boss at the time, he had this big corner office

[00:07:28] overlooking Rockefeller Center and it was beautiful. And he was like, Noah, you're really good at what you

[00:07:33] do, but you're just not focused. It's like, do you want to be here? He was like, look at this.

[00:07:37] And he pointed to his things in the office. And he was like, if you lock down and focus

[00:07:42] in a couple of years, like you too could have this. And when I tell you that my heart sank and

[00:07:47] I was like, I don't want this. That's what he wanted. I'm like, God bless. And so I quit on

[00:07:52] the spot. And the funny thing is, is listen, luck favors the prepared. And so I can't say it was luck,

[00:07:59] but I was certainly fortunate to be in New York city going through all this because I was able to

[00:08:03] leverage networks, unlike any other city possible, which I'm a big believer that entrepreneur is

[00:08:08] only as strong as their relationship network and their sphere of influence. So when I left my

[00:08:13] accounting job, I linked up with this kid and we started a promotional direction company where we

[00:08:18] would hire DJs, we would hire promoters. So we were kind of promotional directors and we would take

[00:08:23] over nightclubs and we would run them. And I actually learned more about the service industry,

[00:08:28] about hospitality, about exceeding and kind of consumer expectations, customer expectations.

[00:08:34] So I learned all this in the streets of New York city, growing up in this iconic era of

[00:08:38] New York city nightlife where 10 June and Kane and guest house and Susie Wong and pink elephant

[00:08:44] and sweet 16. Yeah. And Marti and sweet 16 and duvet and all these places that the rappers were

[00:08:49] rapping about. I was fortunate enough to learn how to, again, take care of a customer.

[00:08:55] And at the peak of hospitality in New York city. So I did that. It was like one of those things where

[00:09:01] it's crazy looking back because I always tell the story about how I hired Aoki, DJ Aoki at one of my

[00:09:07] clubs for like, I want to say it was like 750 bucks. Maybe it was like 1500. I'm remembering he

[00:09:12] was in the come up, right? He's trying to make it just like everyone else. And now he goes for half a

[00:09:16] million dollars a show. And so again, the timing was very fortunate for myself to do what I'm doing now.

[00:09:22] So fast forward to the housing crisis of 2008, New York city kind of bottomed out. My life went

[00:09:28] through a big riff, a big hit. So I had left and it was kind of like fortunate, unfortunate timing.

[00:09:33] I had some family members that were very sick. I will call them out because they hate when I do

[00:09:37] this on a match. It's not, it's not often you get cancer and then you have your family member

[00:09:41] talking about it on a podcast. So I try to be respectful of them, but people very close to me,

[00:09:46] one had just suffered a heart attack, almost lost a life. And the other one was diagnosed with

[00:09:49] stage three colon cancer. So I moved to Pittsburgh, back to Pittsburgh, to my hometown to deal with

[00:09:54] that and just kind of find my place again after New York city. How was that for you? Was that hard

[00:09:59] because you were like in the middle of the limelight and all of a sudden it was debilitating.

[00:10:03] It was like the child star that lost their space in front of the camera and their limelight.

[00:10:08] You're probably thinking, am I ever going to get back to New York or is that it? I'm going back home.

[00:10:11] Exactly. I thought that especially coming from that exciting time of my life and then listen,

[00:10:18] I love my family, but not only to just go back to your hometown, you feel like you're kind of,

[00:10:22] at least for me, regressing a little bit because I was building such a prominent name and I was

[00:10:26] having so much fun and I was meeting so many interesting people. I was with Kanye and Jay-Z

[00:10:32] and Rihanna when they were doing like New York State of Mind, like releasing a song. And I was at

[00:10:37] 10 June when Busta Rhymes would grab the mic and rap. And I'm like, I can't believe I'm here.

[00:10:41] So then to go back to your hometown, that's actually probably that moment right there in this year.

[00:10:49] And this is very important for, I think everyone to understand because I almost at the end of that

[00:10:53] year, didn't make it out. I almost like literally died. And I'll give you the brief story of that.

[00:10:57] Move home, taking care of my family members that are sick, trying to find a way to make a name

[00:11:01] for myself in my hometown and make some money. I didn't save any money. Obviously it was all spent on

[00:11:06] clothes at Neiman Marcus, which is again, not me, but no trouble. So I got back into drugs and I

[00:11:13] started doing drugs again and it kind of got out of control just to escape from the situation you're

[00:11:18] in. From my family being sick, from me not having a purpose, like idle hands of the devil's playground,

[00:11:23] especially with somebody with energy like me that needs to focus it somewhere or I'm very destructive,

[00:11:29] which is why I try to stay as busy as possible as often as possible still to this day.

[00:11:32] Right. So I remember I was at a Superbowl party and I was doing drugs and I was mixing drugs that

[00:11:39] you shouldn't just cause I was, I felt invincible. And honestly, like at the time I didn't really care.

[00:11:43] I was going through such a hard point, low point that I wasn't thinking clearly. And I remember

[00:11:47] waking up in the hospital and seeing all of my family there. And that moment right there,

[00:11:52] like seeing my nieces, my nephew, my baby brother who adores me and I adore him, my mom,

[00:11:57] my dad, my brother-in-law, like my whole family just looking at me, not with like anger or malice,

[00:12:02] but just concern. And I promised myself from that moment that I would never make my family feel that

[00:12:08] way again. When you woke up, did you remember like how you ended up there? Fuck yeah. I remember every

[00:12:13] single feeling. I remember the feeling of my eyes rolling in the back of my head. I remember the

[00:12:17] feeling of like, if I pass out right now, I'm not waking up. And I remember that vividly. And to be

[00:12:22] honest, that fuels to this day, even though that was 15 plus years ago, to that day, that fuels a

[00:12:28] lot of my hustle and my fire to continue to push away from that dark spot. I still, despite everything

[00:12:34] that on paper I've done, I still have that chip on my shoulder and I'm still just that same kid from

[00:12:39] Pittsburgh that doesn't want to give their family that look in their eye again. So it was such a

[00:12:46] beautiful, again, serendipitous moment where I got out of the hospital a few days later and I was driving

[00:12:51] down the street in Lawrenceville in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania. And there was this guy was hanging

[00:12:57] the sign that said Warren Stout Enzo Gracie Jiu Jitsu Pittsburgh. That was a mouthful. That sign

[00:13:03] must've cost a lot, but they were literally opening the studio and I had trained Jiu Jitsu at Sarah

[00:13:08] Jiu Jitsu down the street from Hofstra in Long Island. And that was always kind of my sanctuary where

[00:13:13] I got to get my energy out and my aggression out. And so I was like, why don't I get back into

[00:13:18] Jiu Jitsu? So that moment, I'm pretty sure that Warren and that crew in Pittsburgh and saved my

[00:13:23] life to be honest. And I give them so much credit. So I started training with these guys five days a

[00:13:27] week. And I kind of essentially what a lot of entrepreneurs or especially people in fitness

[00:13:32] do, we traded addictions. So I traded the drugs and the partying and the sense of the lack of

[00:13:37] purpose, I should say with, let me train. Let me get with this community of people that just want

[00:13:42] to see you get stronger and better physically. And then again, it reminded me of me as a kid when I

[00:13:46] would go to the gym and I would submit to like strength training and football. And I was like

[00:13:50] lost in that world. It got me centered and focused and it got all of those like panic attacks and the

[00:13:56] anxiety I was going through when the drug withdrawals, cause I quit cold turkey with no help, no pills,

[00:14:01] which is very tough. And every time I would feel negatively, I would train Jiu Jitsu. So fast forward

[00:14:07] a year after that, my parents literally kicked me out of Pittsburgh. They were like, listen,

[00:14:12] you're destined for something more than this. They've always been my biggest advocates. Well,

[00:14:17] not everyone that has parents that believe in them, right? Not everybody has that. They've

[00:14:20] been my biggest supporters. Even when I didn't see any potential in myself, I've always had a great

[00:14:25] support system. And I'm fortunate for that because honestly, sometimes that's all it takes. When you're

[00:14:30] going through a dark spot and you just have people that believe in you, as opposed to reinforcing your

[00:14:33] own systems of disbeliefs and distrust in yourself, that could be the difference between success and

[00:14:40] failure. So I'm very fortunate. Again, what got me to the seat is that slumdog millionaire.

[00:14:44] Every single little thing that's happened in my life is why I'm sitting there right now. And I

[00:14:48] wouldn't change a damn thing, even though it literally almost killed me. So I got kicked out

[00:14:52] of Pittsburgh. My parents gave me again, very open with my story, 10,000 bucks. I had no money.

[00:14:58] I was literally broke and lost and they gave me 10,000 bucks. God bless them. But as you know,

[00:15:04] in New York city, that doesn't go very far. So I was doing odd jobs. I moved back. I got a

[00:15:09] Craigslist apartment from this guy, Alex Malyshev, who was a Ford model who wanted to sublease his

[00:15:15] apartment for three months while he was in South Africa. So he gave me a really good deal, really

[00:15:19] good guy. He was like, listen, don't even pay my full rent, pay half rent. I just want something.

[00:15:24] And so I could afford to stay there for three months. That was my timeframe. I had three months

[00:15:28] of living. So I'm bartending, I'm modeling, I'm doing like little odd jobs. I'm like just whatever

[00:15:33] I can do to survive. I'm trying to get back in the nightlife scene. And then one of my friends

[00:15:37] asked me, this guy, Micah Jesse, he was doing a writeup on this place called Barry's Bootcamp.

[00:15:41] Yep. We had JJ, the CEO of Barry's Bootcamp on our podcast.

[00:15:45] Exactly. So I always give them love. Again, talk about my origin story. You've got to respect the

[00:15:49] people that helped you get where you're at. So I almost didn't go because I was having a really

[00:15:53] bad week. I was still suffering from panic attacks and going through anxiety. So I almost

[00:15:57] canceled that. And again, I'm not sitting there if I cancel that moment. So I dragged myself up. I was

[00:16:02] like, listen, I feel like shit right now, but guess what? I'm still going to go to this class.

[00:16:07] I'm going to show up. So I showed up and I remember being in the bathroom before that class,

[00:16:11] literally I would get panic attacks and my arm would go numb. So my left arm was like feeling

[00:16:15] kind of funny and I was feeling like short of breath, but the class was starting. The mic came

[00:16:19] on and the music came on and kind of startled me a little bit. And I was like, all right, whatever.

[00:16:24] I got to do this. I told my friend I was going to do it. I got to show up for them. I walk into

[00:16:27] Barry's and I end up just having the time of my life. I'm sprinting up hills and I'm squatting and I'm

[00:16:33] like high-fiving my friend. And the trainer at the time happened to be Joey Gonzalez.

[00:16:37] Joey. Yeah. Joey's actually who we are on the podcast. Yeah. So Joey Gonzalez. So I don't know

[00:16:43] what happened, but we struck up a conversation. He was like, listen, I don't know what you do.

[00:16:46] He didn't know that I trained jujitsu, that I had studied every strength and conditioning book in the

[00:16:51] industry, that I had access to world conditioning coaches and strength coaches, got to learn again,

[00:16:55] not from a classroom, but from real life. Like I was out there learning and applying in the same

[00:17:02] light. So he asked me if I wanted to train there. They had just opened a week ago.

[00:17:07] And Joey is now the CEO of Barry's Bootcamp. So he was a trainer and he became the CEO.

[00:17:14] Well, he was a trainer, but at the time he was also a partner. So he wasn't the CEO at the time,

[00:17:18] but he was a partner at the time. So I didn't know that.

[00:17:20] But that's where he got started. He got started as a trainer. Yeah.

[00:17:22] As a trainer. So much like my story. So each one, teach one. So we ended up striking this

[00:17:28] conversation up and he asked me if I wanted to be a trainer there. And I was like, I never thought

[00:17:32] about this, but yeah, sure. So I ended up going through all the trainings and stuff and they gave

[00:17:37] me one class Monday night, 9 PM. And that's a very hard sell. 9 PM, New York city, it's late.

[00:17:44] So I would show up sometimes and three people would be there, then seven people and then one person,

[00:17:48] and then no people would be there. And I'd walk home all disheartened, but then 10 people,

[00:17:54] 20 people, 60 people, 60 people with a wait list. And it was because again, that chip on my shoulder,

[00:18:00] I was like, listen, if I can focus for this hour of training people externally and not focus on the

[00:18:06] panic attacks I'm having, not focus on the shitty situation that I'm in and not consistently

[00:18:11] reinforce how tough my life is right now. And I can just for that hour focus on is the music dope?

[00:18:17] Is the experience awesome? Are the lights going? Am I motivating and galvanizing the room? Am I

[00:18:22] connecting with people? So I'm authentically giving them this energy so that they can feed off of

[00:18:26] the community responded to that. And again, talk about luck, like to be in New York city and doing

[00:18:32] that is definitely a big advantage. So I was training producers and directors. And there was

[00:18:38] this guy, Michael Rourke, who I was training. He was the founder of Hudson media group.

[00:18:42] And he was doing this series for GQ about fitness. It was called fighting weight. It was short episodic

[00:18:48] content on little like four minute workouts you could do anywhere. And the host was Eric Valdez,

[00:18:53] I think a former soap opera star. And he was like, yo, your energy is so good. I know classical

[00:18:58] training. He was like, why don't you jump on camera for this GQ gentlemen's quarterly opportunity?

[00:19:04] And I was like, yeah, I'm like, I'm a bum. Like, I don't know anything. I've never been trained.

[00:19:08] I don't know what I'm doing in front of the camera. Like, sure. If you want to put your

[00:19:12] reputation online, he's like, nah, just be yourself. You'll be great. So I was like,

[00:19:15] all right, cool. I mean, I'm still again, filled with a little doubt because I've gone through this

[00:19:19] trauma and I've gone, I'm a little shell shock still about what I've been through in my past and

[00:19:23] all the dark spots, but I showed up. And again, when the camera went on, it was like us talking

[00:19:28] right now. I just, for some reason, even though I'd never been on camera, I just felt at ease.

[00:19:32] And so that GQ series led to media features and Vanity Fair and Harper's Bazaar and times,

[00:19:37] and I'm getting opportunities. I got a show on Bravo and all of it in a deal with Nike to host

[00:19:42] massive events for them. And I'm in the middle of Nike town, New York city.

[00:19:46] What was it about you that you think opened up those opportunities? Is it your personality?

[00:19:51] I don't fucking know, man. I don't know.

[00:19:53] Well, I mean, I can tell, well, I have my own thoughts.

[00:19:56] Well, I would rather hear them from you.

[00:19:57] Well, no, I can tell you come off somebody who's comfortable in their own skin,

[00:20:01] who's authentic, who doesn't try to be anybody else but themselves.

[00:20:04] You also come off somebody that's vulnerable, that doesn't kind of portray something. And I think

[00:20:09] those are the types of people that people want to work with and be friends with and be around.

[00:20:12] First off, thank you. There was a time when I tried to emulate what I thought I wanted to be,

[00:20:16] and I failed miserably, which is why I got into drugs and all of this.

[00:20:20] Of course, right.

[00:20:20] Everyone else is already taken, right?

[00:20:22] Exactly. Be yourself. And I think that I actually just did another,

[00:20:25] that I think you touched on it at the end. This is very important for entrepreneurs.

[00:20:30] entrepreneurs be somebody that other people want in the room. And being somebody,

[00:20:37] it's not about portraying something. It's about developing your own unique taste palette

[00:20:42] by ingesting as much as you can so you have a specific and diverse point of view.

[00:20:46] I try to do everything. I try to understand different walks of life, different points of

[00:20:50] view, different genres of music. I try to watch different movies that I might not like.

[00:20:53] And I'm trying to consume as much as possible so that one, I can identify trends and see kind

[00:20:58] of what's out there. But two, you find yourself. You're not in an echo chamber and reinforcing what

[00:21:03] you think you're supposed to be. You're being vulnerable and being out there. And one, meeting

[00:21:07] so many diverse people, you know, the Pink Floyd line, all you touch and all you see is all your

[00:21:12] life will ever be. We got one run at this shit. We don't have the reset button. We don't have

[00:21:15] gay genie to get more lives. So I try to Jim Carrey, yes, man, everything I can. And hopefully it's put

[00:21:21] me in a position to be articulate and educated and well-rounded enough where people want me in the

[00:21:27] room. And obviously for people starting out, you're not going to have that diverse taste palette. And

[00:21:32] you might not be as lucky to hang out with Kanye and to hang out and to get that input from

[00:21:37] extraordinary people. But it reminds me of one of my first clients, this guy, Rick Gerson, who was a

[00:21:44] mentor and a good friend. He said something that was pretty profound. He was like, listen, I didn't have

[00:21:49] two pennies to rub together. And this guy, Rick Gerson, self-made billionaire. There's no reason

[00:21:54] I should be in the room with him. But the reason what he said and why he wanted me in the room is,

[00:21:58] listen, you bring this consistent, boundless, positive energy. I want to be around that.

[00:22:04] So when you have nothing to give and you have nothing, I guess, tangible to offer,

[00:22:09] bring your motivation, bring your energy, bring your positive attitude. Because in a world where

[00:22:14] there's a lot of negativity and that negativity is consistently reinforced in social media,

[00:22:19] because that's what gets the clicks. Be that as authentically as possible. And sometimes you do

[00:22:23] have to fake it, to be honest. I don't always wake up like, hey, let's fucking go, buddy.

[00:22:27] But as authentically as you can, be that person, be that positive energy, be that well of inspiration

[00:22:33] and that backbone for other people who may need it. And you'd be so surprised at where that can take

[00:22:38] you and what rooms you'll be sitting in because of it. So again, I'm just here because of that and the

[00:22:43] rooms that I got to sit in where I'm very fortunate to be in. So fast forward out of berries to rumble,

[00:22:49] I'd build up my brand within the parameters of berries or I guess under the umbrella of berries

[00:22:53] for a long time, four and a half, five years. But it was like, all right, what's next? I'm always...

[00:22:59] ADHD is a very sinister but beautiful disease, I guess, or disorder, I should say. Because when we

[00:23:06] accomplish something, we don't ever give ourselves a medal or pat us on our back. We're just kind of

[00:23:10] relieved that it happened. We're like, all right, I did it. Now what's next? I learned from my mom,

[00:23:15] you're only as good as your last sale. So I accomplished all these things within berries

[00:23:19] and I was making great money and I had the Lambo and I had the things that I thought were going to

[00:23:23] make me fulfilled. But when I got those things, I was like, cool, what's next?

[00:23:27] Yeah. And that's what people don't understand about entrepreneurs and people like, how is he still

[00:23:31] working? He has so much money. It's like, it's not about the money. And it says, as soon as you buy

[00:23:35] something like, okay, what am I built? Because it's about what you're building. It's about the journey.

[00:23:38] Exactly. We'll be right back with the Speed of Culture after a few words from our sponsors.

[00:24:34] So it's been an amazing story just hearing how you got to the point where Rumble was created.

[00:24:40] And obviously Rumble is a brand that so many people have heard of. It's made such a big impact

[00:24:45] on the fitness industry. So tell us about the story of Rumble and given this crazy twist and

[00:24:51] turns of your background, how you got involved in this venture.

[00:24:55] So story of Rumble is, it was almost a thing that never happened, to be honest.

[00:24:59] So I was at Barry's Bootcamp. That was my first foray into the fitness industry.

[00:25:05] Now I'll quickly rehash. So I had this wild year of drugs and almost ODing and getting kicked out of my

[00:25:13] home city of Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania with $10,000 in my bank account and trying to make it in New York

[00:25:17] and go into this Barry's class. And fast forward a couple of years working with Barry's, becoming the

[00:25:22] master trainer, becoming pretty much a prominent face of that brand, which again, was not my brand.

[00:25:27] I was just leveraging that platform to build my own personal brand at the time.

[00:25:31] And Eugene Rem, who's the founder of Catch Restaurants, Nightlife Impresario.

[00:25:37] So she reached out to me and he said, hey, I see you posting all these videos of you boxing.

[00:25:42] And I had already built up my name in New York and kind of nationally by doing some national press and media

[00:25:47] and television within the Barry's brand. Would you ever want to start your own concept utilizing the boxing?

[00:25:53] Because in my classes, I was always trying to work in boxing in another brand. And I originally, I said no,

[00:26:01] because I had finally dug myself out of the hole, which there was a lot of hesitation because I was scared

[00:26:08] to go back to where I was. I had that chip on my shoulder. I had a path. I was on the train tracks.

[00:26:13] I was driving the train. I was shoveling coal into it and things were going great.

[00:26:18] So it wasn't like I left because there was anything bad going on in my life. It was just,

[00:26:23] I had this fear about losing everything. So Eugene hit me up. He's this Brighton Beach,

[00:26:30] son of immigrants, just, he's very headstrong. And again, he always tells the story differently,

[00:26:35] but Eugene, I'm gonna tell it the way it is. I said no for literally six months, but he is a very

[00:26:40] persistent man. So for six months, I was so, again, I let fear stop me literally in my

[00:26:47] tracks from achieving something. You just didn't know if you could deliver,

[00:26:51] like Eugene's been very successful and he's trying to get you involved and you're just like,

[00:26:55] can I do this or not? I don't even think it was the fear of not being good enough to start my own

[00:27:01] thing. It was literally like, I would wake up and think about what Eugene had offered. And I would

[00:27:07] flash back to being in my basement in my parents' house in Pittsburgh, like having panic attacks,

[00:27:13] sitting with my dog and just trying to figure out like what I was going to do with my life and being

[00:27:19] paralyzed. And I was so afraid because the momentum was there with me. I had Uncle Mo on my side and I

[00:27:25] didn't want to kill that momentum, especially to start something brand new in a very, as everyone

[00:27:30] will say, a very saturated industry, especially in New York City where fitness concept.

[00:27:35] Yeah. You had SoulCycle at that point. You had Flywheel, Barry's, they were everywhere. Equinox,

[00:27:40] etc. Everything. Not even that. Orange Theory, there was a thousand and then mom and pop's gyms.

[00:27:46] It was like Starbucks in New York City. So after six months of Eugene, hey, let's go for a smoothie.

[00:27:51] Let's just talk. Let's see, like, if you know of anybody that can help me start this new concept,

[00:27:55] because he was an investor at Flywheel and he wanted to balance out his portfolio with something

[00:28:00] healthy. He had cash, which is not unhealthy, but it was just a different pursuit. And he wanted to get

[00:28:04] into fitness, which was also a very important thing in his life. He was on his own little fitness

[00:28:09] adventure, getting strong and getting healthy and getting in shape. So fast forward the six months

[00:28:14] of him really hammering it home, like, we should do this. It's a great idea. There's nothing else

[00:28:19] out there like this. We can do it uniquely. He asked me to come to a meeting with these other two guys

[00:28:24] who ended up being the co-founders, Andy Stenzler and Anthony DeMarco at Soho House and Meatpacking

[00:28:30] District. So we all met up. And within those six months, I had a little composition notebook and

[00:28:35] had already been ideating the idea of Rumble. I want to punch things. There was literally, I think I

[00:28:39] mentioned this, but there were three principles, three tenets that I wrote on those college or high

[00:28:44] school composition notebooks. And the first principle, the first tenet was, I want to punch

[00:28:48] shit. Second one was, I want to listen to rap music. Because at the time, the fitness industry

[00:28:53] was very EDM, very poppy, very top 40. And that wasn't what I listened to growing up ever. So it wasn't

[00:29:01] really doing it for me. And I was always at Barry's trying to, instead of playing Taylor Swift,

[00:29:05] I was playing Method Man. I was playing DMX. I was playing Ice Cube. I was playing NW, like all that

[00:29:09] stuff. So that was the second principle. And then the third principle was, I want to do dope shit

[00:29:13] with dope people. Because again, when you're working for another brand, you have no control of who's

[00:29:18] involved in that brand. You have no control over who's hired. You're just kind of a mercenary.

[00:29:23] So I wanted something that was literally, I just wanted to surround myself with like-minded

[00:29:27] people that were fun to be around. So I met these guys and they gave me an offer I couldn't refuse.

[00:29:34] I don't have the cotton balls in my mouth, like Brando. But they gave me this offer and financially,

[00:29:39] and I was looking at it coming from the little kid that had, you know, minus $76.

[00:29:44] They gave you an offer to start the concept? Like to say, we're going to fund it and you're going

[00:29:48] to be running it basically? Essentially. They gave me a co-founder position, obviously. So I was

[00:29:52] right there with them. We had already, I think, almost been fully funded for the first location

[00:29:58] because they kind of proceeded as if I had already said yes. Because Eugene, again, is very persistent.

[00:30:03] So he kind of, for the month prior, was like, all right, we got this kid. We got him locked. So he

[00:30:08] went out to investors and ended up getting pretty much fully funding the first location, the bricks

[00:30:12] and mortar. So I remember they gave me this offer and I was like, minus $76 in my bank account,

[00:30:18] sometimes putting food back at Key Foods and Alphabet City because I couldn't afford it.

[00:30:23] And that's not easy in New York when you're that age and you're out and about and you have to

[00:30:27] portray a certain vibe. And the reality is you're struggling behind closed doors.

[00:30:33] A hundred percent. I mean, by the end of my Barry's tenure, I was very stable. That's why I didn't want

[00:30:38] to leave. But in the beginning, I had first moved and first started training as a profession.

[00:30:42] It was like credit card roulette. I would swipe back hard and pray to God that I went through.

[00:30:46] And a lot of times it wouldn't. I would have to put back like the chicken and I'd keep the

[00:30:51] cottage cheese because I needed my protein. And then I'd swipe it again and they'd be like,

[00:30:55] I'm still no good. And I'd have to put back the cottage cheese, but I'd keep the tuna fish cans.

[00:30:59] But New York, man, you learn to be scrappy. You learn to work with whatever resources you have,

[00:31:03] which is why I love that city so much. So they gave me this offer that was like something that I

[00:31:07] never, ever thought that I would ever be able to achieve. And I remember I ran out and I,

[00:31:13] first person I called was my mom and I called her and I go, listen, these guys are offering me this

[00:31:19] like insane offer to like found this company with them. I already know what we would do. I already

[00:31:24] know what it's going to look like. I already know exactly the presentation, like exactly the

[00:31:28] execution. I'm scared though. I don't want to end up back in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania in the basement,

[00:31:34] looking at myself and praying to God that someone calls me to get me out of my situation.

[00:31:39] And she goes most profound thing. And this is a very important moment as an entrepreneur that

[00:31:44] a lot of people just don't have the luxury of having this support, family support. And she

[00:31:49] said, after listening to me, she goes, listen, no matter what you do, I'm going to be proud of you.

[00:31:54] And I was like, it's awesome. I got a little, I was like the little lip whiver. And I walked back in

[00:32:00] with the confidence of having the pride of my family behind me and the lion King. And I walked back in.

[00:32:07] You're playing with house money at that point, right?

[00:32:09] Yeah. And I'm like, you know what? I made my family proud after that moment when I woke up

[00:32:13] in the hospital and they were all looking at me very scared, very disappointed and very just

[00:32:17] uncertain of what their son was going to become. And that was one of those moments where I was like,

[00:32:22] listen, no matter what happens, even if I take a risk and fall on my face, because it was risky.

[00:32:28] When I was leaving my job, I was talking to a principal at my old company and he

[00:32:32] was kind enough to tell me that nine out of 10 gyms fail. And I was like, all right, cool.

[00:32:37] So thanks, buddy. So nine out of 10 gyms fail. So knowing that I felt I wasn't fearful anymore.

[00:32:44] And I had this tattoo that's from Shakespeare. It's from King Henry. That's his fearless minds

[00:32:48] climb soonest unto crowns. And so I looked at my arm, I got this in college and I looked at my arm

[00:32:52] and I was like, how dare I have this tattoo and fake the funk? I was like, I got to be fearless.

[00:32:56] I have to go for this. I have to. So I did. And then the rest is pretty much history. I mean,

[00:33:03] we opened up January 9th, 2017 to a wild fanfare. I think before we launched, we had over a hundred

[00:33:10] pieces of press because Eugene in his own right, myself in my own right, we had built up this kind

[00:33:15] of brand awareness, our personal brand awareness. Was it the newness of the concept, Noah, that it was

[00:33:20] boxing? No. Like besides the founding team, like what about it was unique and why do you think it

[00:33:26] ultimately took off the way it did? It could have been fucking badminton. It's the people.

[00:33:30] I always say this, it ain't what you do. It's who you do it with and how you do it. But that's really

[00:33:36] indicative of who you do it with. So it was just, we had a powerhouse of personalities. We just had

[00:33:41] a backbone behind the brand that was at least undeniably interesting to watch. So you have these

[00:33:50] kids that, you know, we've been building up our own thing in New York and Eugene has built up

[00:33:55] cash restaurants, iconic, 10 June, Aben Arthur's great. He's just a serial entrepreneur. I had

[00:34:01] built my name up at Barry's and was training some of the biggest people in the world. And obviously

[00:34:06] they have a big mouthpiece. So they're talking about me. So it's just, we had a lot of eyeballs

[00:34:11] on us, but that also put a big crosshair on our back because imagine if we opened up January 9th,

[00:34:17] 2017 and it was underwhelming, but I thrive under the fire. So again, not many, like I'm very

[00:34:23] fortunate. We're very fortunate because there's so many concepts, so many things in and outside of

[00:34:28] the gym that they open and shut without a whisper. And like I said, we were before we even had our

[00:34:33] first studio open, I'm doing morning shows. I'm doing cup of tour. I'm doing all of these really

[00:34:38] cool shake magazine, muscle and fitness, like all of like everybody who's been supporting Eugene for

[00:34:44] over a decade in New York, supporting me for over five years as a trainer, group fitness trainer in New

[00:34:49] York City. We had that support. And so when we launched, of course we had something unique. Because

[00:34:56] like I said, we listened to hip hop, which was pretty unique at the time in 2017. Not a lot of studios

[00:35:02] were playing hip hop. I mean, I think you had some yoga studios that were trying to play some hip hop.

[00:35:07] So that in itself was actually kind of... But boxing itself is something that was never,

[00:35:13] at least to my knowledge, something that you could consume in a class or was it?

[00:35:18] I will give all praise to what I think is the godfather of Rumble, Michael Olajone Jr., who had

[00:35:25] aerospace. So Michael Olajone Jr. was a professional boxer who ended up losing his eye in a match. And

[00:35:33] that obviously ended his career. So he had this cool eye patch. He would always wear the Jeremy

[00:35:37] Scott Adidas with wings. And he had this studio in Meatpacking District, coincidentally, not too far

[00:35:44] from where I had signed the deal to become co-founder of Rumble Boxing. So he had this thing

[00:35:50] called Aerospace, where in the 90s and early 2000s, he was training everybody. He was Adriana Lima,

[00:35:56] a supermodel's boxing coach. And Adriana Lima, aka Hot Lava, she was one of those early pioneers in

[00:36:03] making boxing cool and making it prominent and taking it out of the gyms of Gleason's and Mendez

[00:36:08] and Fortune and Trinity and bringing it kind of to the mainstream. So it was always around. It was

[00:36:15] just never kind of penetrated the zeitgeist in hip hop culture. It's interesting because there's a couple

[00:36:21] takeaways that I have from your story. One of which is like, if you weren't posting social media content

[00:36:27] like you did, then this opportunity... Doesn't happen. Right. So I think one lesson is like,

[00:36:33] put yourself out there, no matter where you are in your life and your career. Because if you don't,

[00:36:37] you're closing out opportunities. If you're not in the consideration set,

[00:36:41] then you have no chance of something fortunate happening to you. So why were you posting? What

[00:36:46] were you getting out of that? I guess what advice would you have for people that maybe were in the

[00:36:50] situation you used to be in that have something to say or do something different, but are afraid to

[00:36:55] put themselves out there on social media? Why did I put myself out there? To be honest,

[00:36:59] it wasn't for anybody else. It was for me. It was to keep me accountable because when you're vulnerable

[00:37:05] and you put out your pursuits, you put out your passions, especially on a bigger scale than your

[00:37:10] personal network as social media tends to be. Even if you have a hundred followers, that's generally

[00:37:15] more people than you have in your personal day-to-day life saying, Hey, you've been posting boxing.

[00:37:20] You haven't posted your workouts. You haven't posted anything in a few weeks. Like what's going on?

[00:37:24] Are you good? So social media definitely kept me accountable, but it also for so long,

[00:37:30] for those years that I was in the basement and I was inside and I was reclusive. I didn't like that.

[00:37:37] I didn't like that. It was very lonely. So social media gave me an outlet to share what I love with

[00:37:43] the world that I had repressed for years and it was fun. And it's the likes are cool. And that gives

[00:37:49] you a little shot of dopamine and you're chasing the treasure. But I was an early adopter of kind of,

[00:37:56] they say now, like you're your own personal brand and make sure that you're putting yourself out there

[00:38:01] and you're building your own brand. And oftentimes that becomes a little disingenuous because we're

[00:38:06] putting out what we want the world to see as opposed to putting out what we actually are. For me, I just

[00:38:12] wanted to showcase what I did. So it's honestly like when I, my first post on Instagram, I don't

[00:38:18] remember what it was. I was a late adopter to Instagram. It said it was a post of me holding

[00:38:22] my dog and flexing. And I was like, folks, this is pretty much what you're going to get forever.

[00:38:26] I'm not going to change because that's what I love. I love my dogs and I love to work out and I love to

[00:38:32] apply the principles of training into my entrepreneurial and personal life. That's it.

[00:38:36] That's what I like to do. And I talked about this for 10 plus years and I've never wavered in my

[00:38:42] execution. I've never changed and it might be boring and it might be redundant, but oftentimes the

[00:38:47] soil of success is that redundancy, is that commitment to doing what you have to do just

[00:38:54] with that same passion, even though you've done it 10 trillion times before.

[00:38:58] Yeah. So looking ahead, you talked about the origins of Rumble and why you think it was success.

[00:39:04] Where is Rumble today and where do you hope to take it moving forward to some of the opportunities

[00:39:08] you have your eye on? Tyson, he's very excited for this part, the future. He wants to know if he

[00:39:13] still afford gourmet Wagyu beef for his meals. So when you build something based on authenticity,

[00:39:21] you don't have to worry too much about the direction in the far future. I focus on putting

[00:39:29] one foot forward, one step forward every single day and executing on what I believe to be true,

[00:39:36] which is that composition notebook. I want to punch shit. I want to listen to rap music and I want to do

[00:39:43] incredible things with incredible people. If we follow those three principles, the music will change

[00:39:48] a little bit. The artwork that we adorn on the walls will change a little bit with the times,

[00:39:52] but in its essence, Rumble is going to remain Rumble until the last brick falls. So it's my goal as a

[00:40:01] founder, as much as I can to maintain that authenticity, to make sure that as we scale,

[00:40:07] to make sure the lowest analogy I can come up with is Roy Kroc. You want to make sure you're not selling

[00:40:13] hot dogs at McDonald's and you want to just make sure that as much as you can innovate in the margins,

[00:40:21] you don't want to completely reinvent your brand. You don't have to do that. That's where a lot of

[00:40:24] brands fail when they think they have to totally change their vernacular and lingo and how they

[00:40:29] present their brand just to adopt to times. I think those little kind of marginal innovations,

[00:40:34] as you progress while staying rooted to your original ethos is super important. And that's

[00:40:40] solely my goal. Solely my goal is to make sure that people are showing up, they're getting an

[00:40:46] incredible workout that's going to make them not just look better, but again, feel better. That was

[00:40:52] another differentiating factor where all these workouts in the early 2000s, late 90s and early

[00:40:56] 2000s, we're talking about, let's burn calories. Let's look sexy. Let's make sure we have summer

[00:41:01] bodies. We were just like, no, let's just feel fucking great. Let's develop something where you

[00:41:06] can literally tap into your visceral core desires to just throw your fists and fight or flight,

[00:41:12] where you can just fight and throw things and feel good and do it with great people.

[00:41:16] So my goal is as we scale, we have like, I think a hundred studios open. Now we opened in Tokyo,

[00:41:22] Australia from that one little January 9th, 2017 opening in Chelsea with another 250 on the way,

[00:41:29] 250 licenses sold. I just want to steer the ship the best I can as it grows like wildfire and just

[00:41:35] make sure, again, it's an authentic representation of what I wanted to bring to the world and the

[00:41:40] experience, more importantly, the experience and the feelings that I wanted our consumer,

[00:41:45] our clients to walk out with. So that's really it.

[00:41:48] What an incredible story. So shifting gears here, Noah, as we wrap up,

[00:41:51] it's been so inspiring to hear about your journey. As you look back on the whole story that we just went

[00:41:57] through from the earliest days when you first got to New York to the dark days, when you had to go

[00:42:02] back to Pittsburgh to where you are sitting today, what were some of the decisions that you think you

[00:42:07] made right along the way that set you up to be the success that you are?

[00:42:12] The best decision that I ever made was absolutely without a doubt doing what I had to do and not doing

[00:42:22] what I felt like doing. Because especially when you're dealing with, like I have diagnosed medical

[00:42:27] conditions. I have ADHD. I probably still have it, but depression, anxiety. I curb it with what I do,

[00:42:32] with what I physically do with my life. But there were so many times when, again, even something as

[00:42:38] simple as like not wanting to post boxing, not wanting to be in, you know, out. I remember when I

[00:42:44] was starting at Barry's, not wanting to show up because I was going through panic attacks and I had a

[00:42:49] bad week where I felt super depressed and dark and didn't want to be outside. And that's kind of the

[00:42:54] insidious thing about depression and anxiety is all of the things that it takes to get yourself out of

[00:43:00] that hole goes against the natural order of depression. Because to get out of that depressive

[00:43:06] state, you should be doing your normal routines. You should be out there in the public. You should

[00:43:11] not be insulated just thinking about every problem, not holding your wrists like I used to do,

[00:43:15] feeling my heart start racing and getting so worked up that it was racing. I would try to stop and I

[00:43:20] would actually lose my mind trying to like calm myself and it would actually make it worse.

[00:43:25] So every day, it's kind of like that Tyson approach, like being a champion is showing up every day and

[00:43:33] doing what you hate to do sometimes, but executing, performing like you love it. And that's not fake.

[00:43:39] That's not disingenuous. There's so many times where I don't want to do what I know that I have to do,

[00:43:44] but yet because I've trained that discipline for 10 years and it's something you train and you have

[00:43:49] to consistently train it. I was able to, like you said, put myself out there to consistently put

[00:43:55] myself out there to consistently showcase my skills, my attributes to the world, and to become

[00:44:00] that person that people wanted in the room, wanted to be around, wanted to give their time, attention,

[00:44:04] effort, and energy and money because I was consistent in myself and who I was and the energy that I brought

[00:44:11] forth even on days where I didn't want to fucking be that person. So that's my biggest takeaway is I

[00:44:17] learned the very hard way. So hopefully you don't have to learn that way and you can just take my

[00:44:22] word for it. Yeah, for sure. And with that, Noah, is there a kind of quote or mantra that you like

[00:44:27] to guide your life by given everything we've talked about today? Of course. I have a gang of them. I can

[00:44:32] sit here. I got quotables for days, bars, but the biggest one that I quote it pretty much

[00:44:37] almost every time I do a podcast or every time I talk in general, it's a Muhammad Ali quote that I

[00:44:42] always say. So if you've watched a few of my podcasts, I'm so sorry for the redundancy, but like I said,

[00:44:47] the soil of success is generally being redundant and being consistent and saying the same advice.

[00:44:51] So it's service to others is our rent for our room here on earth. And I'm trying to find a better

[00:44:58] quote. I can't find it, especially with what I do as my profession. Service to others is our rent for

[00:45:04] our room here on earth. When we focus on creating an environment to enrich others and we use our

[00:45:12] skills to create a space for others to get stronger, healthier, happier, to feel safer in society,

[00:45:21] then we're probably going to be pretty well off. We're probably going to do all right. Because the

[00:45:28] flip side of that is when we create an environment that's only for ourselves and we're only trying to

[00:45:33] self-serve. Even if we pretend in some clips or some encounters that it's for another person

[00:45:39] or for the greater good, people can sniff out that disingenuous kind of moral fiber, the fiber of a

[00:45:46] brand. So when you actually set up to create systems of service to other people, chances are one,

[00:45:53] you're going to feel really good about yourself. I wake up every day really happy with what I've

[00:45:58] accomplished. Not because of the things, not because of like what it's provided, but because

[00:46:03] I so many times get messages. I feel better. I got out of that depressive state that I know you were in

[00:46:10] because I went to rumble because I was able to walk into a space that was full of energy and life

[00:46:15] and vibrancy. And I got to work out all these demons and literally knuckle therapy. I call it,

[00:46:20] I got to have my daily knuckle therapy. That's incredible. And then hopefully,

[00:46:24] and more often than not, the profits, the revenues, the brand loyalty for your consumer

[00:46:30] is going to come from that. It all follows. It follows that. So Steve Jobs said the same thing.

[00:46:36] He said, focus on the product and not the profit. May he rest piqued. Same thing. They're all saying

[00:46:41] the same thing. Well, I think a lot of people lack patience and they chase the money too soon and put

[00:46:45] everything else aside. And when you do that, you're always chasing the money. And I think when you

[00:46:49] go through the hard work that you've gone through both personally and professionally,

[00:46:54] it's on the other side of that, that you really are able to achieve greatness,

[00:46:58] which is something that you're doing. So I want to thank you so much, Noah, for joining

[00:47:01] today and sticking with us through the technical issues. I cannot wait for

[00:47:04] our audience to hear about your journey. And I can't wait to be in person.

[00:47:08] Thank you so much.

[00:47:09] So on behalf of Susie and Adwee team, thanks again to the great,

[00:47:12] inspiring Noah Neiman, co-founder and creator of Rumble Boxing for joining us today.

[00:47:16] Be sure to subscribe, bring you to Speed of Culture podcast on your favorite podcast platform.

[00:47:20] Until next time, see you soon, everyone, and Rumble along. Thanks again, man.

[00:47:28] The Speed of Culture is brought to you by Susie as part of the Adweek Podcast Network

[00:47:32] and Agus Creator Network. You can listen and subscribe to all Adweek's podcasts by visiting

[00:47:38] adweek.com slash podcasts. To find out more about Susie, head to susie.com. And make sure to search

[00:47:44] for the Speed of Culture in Apple Podcasts, Spotify or anywhere else podcasts are found.

[00:47:49] Click Follow so you don't miss out on any future episodes. On behalf of the team here at Susie,

[00:47:54] thanks for listening.

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